International Migration

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    • 00:10

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES: The fieldof international migration is a really diverse field.I suppose it's home disciplines are anthropology, sociology,geography.And it's extended into other disciplines.Law, economics, political science,international relations.And more recently into new fieldslike environmental science.

    • 00:30

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: So it's a very diverse, a multidisciplinary field.

    • 00:39

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES: Well, I'mcontinually inspired by the subjectbecause it is so diverse.Initially what I was interested in was the rights of migrants,and I was focused on the UK.So it was quite local, drawn by interestin what was going on in the cities in the UK,places where I was living.And I was interested in issues about representation,

    • 00:60

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: and the protection of rights.And from that, I became more interestedthen in the patterns of movement,where were people coming.And I began to think more generally about the UK,and then about Europe, and now my current workis thinking much more globally about howdifferent parts of the world respondto international migration.So looking at Europe in comparisonwith North America, South America,

    • 01:21

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: and the Asia-Pacific region, so the initial inspirationwas quite limited.And then because of the, what I thinkis the, richness of the field, kind of continuallyinspired to issue new research directions.

    • 01:38

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES: Theory is crucial.I mean, it's a social science, if we'regoing to make sense of the world,we have to have ideas to help us organize the massive amountsof empirical material.Otherwise we're just describing things.We want to try to understand things, to explain things.So the theory is absolutely crucialif we often to make sense of international migration.

    • 01:59

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: The thinkers who have inspired me, well there are many.If I am to think of two, and they inspire meas a kind of critical scientists work comingto international migration.Then the first will be Aristide Zolbergwho wrote a very important article from my perspectivein International Migration Review in 1989called "The Next Waves Migration Theory for a Changing World."

    • 02:21

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: And what that really showed me was the centrality of borders,and the way in which we have to understand the meaningand the location of borders as central to the analysisof international migration.That's really made me think about, not onlyabout territorial borders, the points wheremy first encounter states, but alsowhat happens the migrants get inside countries,and begin to encounter the labor market, the welfare

    • 02:43

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: state in European countries for instance,and also more social ideas about belonging entitlementan identity.So Zolberg's work on borders was really influentialand really shape the way that I see thingsand how me to draw on a wider range of theoriesfrom political science, international relations.The second one is by Gary Freeman

    • 03:04

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: who's at the University of Texas at Austin.And he wrote 1995 called "Modes Immigration Politicsin Liberal Democratic States."And this is-- well, I like it because it's counterintuitive.We think the immigration policies are primarilyrestrictive, and we focus on issuesabout the exclusion of migrants from rights and representationin the countries and move to.

    • 03:25

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: What Freeman said was actually that that's wrong.He said that in liberal democratic states,the tendency is towards expansivenessin terms of numbers and inclusivenessin terms of rights.Whether you agree with it or not, what it doesis make you think.Because what he does is look at the costs and benefitsof migration and try to think about how that incentivizesmobilization around migration.

    • 03:46

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: So who benefits, who loses out, howdoes that then affect how groups organizeand mobilize around migration.So he comes up with powerfully counter intuitive findings,which have been really influential.And also argues the liberal democratic stateswill converge because they have similar characteristicsas states, so they would do similar things.

    • 04:06

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: And even though I might have some doubts about some aspectsof the argument, on that kind of theoretical and conceptuallevel, it's the kind of work I like it.Also it puts powerful the counterintuitive ideasto students and challenges the waythat they may see these issues.

    • 04:26

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES: Are we entering a new wayto mobility is a really interesting question.I think anybody studying migrationhas got to think about this question.In a sense, international migrationhas always been with us and we couldargue that it was actually more significant as a phenomenathe end of the 19th century.But, of course, what we see of various kinds of changes

    • 04:47

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: in terms of communication and transport,that perhaps allow or facilitate international migration.So perhaps we're seeing qualitative changesin the kind of types of mobility that wesee linked to these kind of changes in technologiesof travel and communication.That could be something that does usherin the new age of mobility.But if we do, then we have to think about who moves.

    • 05:10

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: I think we can get too obsessed with looking for things thatare new or novel and forget that actually these things have beengoing on for a considerable period of timeand may not be quite so new and novel as we think.And also we should be thinking about who moves.So in a new age of mobility, theremight be certain kinds of people,more privileged migrants, maybe richer

    • 05:32

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: migrants from more developed countries to move more easily.Who live in a world in which travel is more possible.But there are many other people whoperhaps don't have these resources whomight find migration more difficult and alsomore dangerous.We shouldn't forget that for some migrants,migration can be deadly.We should, I think in terms of a new age of mobility,

    • 05:54

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: we shouldn't get carried away and thinkthat this is entirely new.We should think about the continuities w with pastand take them very seriously in our analysis.And also when we think about the impact of technology,we should just get carried away and issued to all peoplewill be able to benefit from this equally.That will not be the case.

    • 06:18

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES: The mobility patternsof the future really interesting because wecould be fixed on what we could call the older destinationcountries: North America, Canada,we could think about Europe.But actually I think international migrationis in a way tilting towards Asia-Pacific.And in the future we may not be quite so focused on Europe,

    • 06:39

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: to say a destination area, Migrants will stillmove to Europe, but I think we needto think very seriously about the wayin which international migration is changing.The new regions of migration are becoming more important.I think we should think seriouslyabout Asia and the Pacific regionand what's happening there.

    • 07:01

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES: Whether immigration is-- well,I suppose, let's talk about the migrantsthemselves, the skills that they bring.And whether the migrants are high-skilled or low-skilledis often to do the work the way in which states categorizedthem.So you may have many skills, but youmay lack the certificate that saysyou have the skills because you comefrom a country that doesn't issue those certificates.

    • 07:22

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: So whether migrants are high-skilled or low-skilledoften just a way of saying whether theycome from more developed or less developed countries.What we do know is that richer, more developed countriesare engaged in what some people seeas a global competition for skilled or talented migrants.Which tends then to exclude those migrants whoare seen as less skilled and less valuable.

    • 07:43

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: Now there's a very strong logic for thatin terms of the economies of the receiving states.But if we think more broadly than that wecan see that actually there is also a distinction between moreeconomically developed countries and less economicallydeveloped countries to access opportunitiesprovided by international migration.So for low-skilled migration, whichis seen as a proxy for people from less economically

    • 08:06

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: developed countries, then that could exacerbatethe global inequalities.So when we look at the global competitionfor high-skilled migrants, we see the countrieslike Australia, Canada, the UK, United Statesare offering opportunities for high-skilled migrantsor trying to open their higher education systems to attract

    • 08:27

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: people from all over the world.

    • 08:34

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES: Integration is a key issueand for students of migration you can study why people moveand then what happens when they arrive.And that's the debate about integration.Which we see in most of the world's destination countries.The key trends in integration, I think,are towards ensuring that migrants

    • 08:55

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: adapt to the societies they move to a lot of thatis born from concerned about alienation of migrant groupsand that's being compounded more recently by fearsabout radicalization among some relativelysmall groups of migrants, or actually, to moreto be more accurate descendants of migrants.

    • 09:16

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: I think one of the key challenges in termsof integration policy is this issue of the adaptationof newcomers and how you then understandthat in terms of allowing newcomersto express their identities: religious,ethnic, cultural identities, that they haveand that they value.

    • 09:37

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: And then their broader integrationto society as a whole.That's the perennial question.That's the question that is always associatedwith international migration.How you then respond to it is where wesee the contemporary challenge.We see in European countries, for example,a very strong focus on testing.

    • 09:58

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: New migrants are required, sometimes before they evenmove, to demonstrate a familiarityto the language of the country theywant to move to, and then familiaritywith the history, the cultural and social normsof that country.That can take the form of the test,and that test is important if youwant to acquire more permanent status in that country

    • 10:21

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: or move towards citizenship.So in the Netherlands or the United Kingdomwe see these kind of things which often reflect whathappens in more traditional country'simmigration like the United Stateswhere citizenship becomes a positive affirmationof your belonging in that society.The murder of the Charlie Hebdo staffand also ISIS, neither of those are in and of themselves

    • 10:43

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: immigration issues.In a sense Charlie Hebdo was interesting because the peoplewho committed the attacks were French-bornand one of the heroes was actuallyan immigrant from Mali who protectedpeople who are under attack.So I think it will be a mistake to thinkthat these kind of incidents, the Charlie Hebdoattacks and also the rise of ISIS,

    • 11:05

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: are somehow related to immigration.But of course in many people's mindsthey become associated with immigrationbecause the attackers were of immigrant origin.Although their own immigrant statuswas every tied up with France's post-colonial historyand a whole range of factors whichcontribute to alienation, radicalization,

    • 11:25

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: and in the extreme circumstances here, murderous attacks.ISIS, of course, one of the issuesis radicalization of younger people in European countrieswho then travel and join ISIS.That's caused serious concern.In the UK people have been imprisoned for that involvement

    • 11:46

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: these kind of events.Similarly in Denmark, where therehave been concerns about the radicalization of youthattacks in Copenhagen and participation in trainingor the activities of ISIS.Now that is perhaps significant of this debateabout securitization and the way in which these kind of attacks

    • 12:07

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: can motivate an agenda which is fundamentally driven by fearand then leads to a policy responsewhich is focus on security.Securitization is a really important themein the study of international migration.It fundamentally means that immigrationis represented both through language, way the people speakabout immigration, and also through the kind of practices

    • 12:28

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: of government and of its agencies.A security issue is a threat, and somethingthat might even require at times exceptional measures whichgo beyond what would normally be seenas permissible in a liberal democratic society.This is where we see the migration meetinga much broader debate about the rights and protection

    • 12:49

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: of those rights of citizens and non-citizens in liberal statesand how these things are managed.

    • 12:58

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES: The future governanceof immigration is really what would interest anybodystudying the politics international migration.Obviously we can't predict the future.We don't know what the future will look like.But what we can do is think about how systems of governmenthave already evolved, what the key challenges now,and how those might evolve in the future.

    • 13:19

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: I think at the domestic level, we'regoing to see some changes in areas of migration.New countries of migration emerging.I think we're going to see a declinein the interesting European countries of immigrationbecause I think the global balance of migrationis going to shift.Then when we look at international level,

    • 13:39

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: this is one of things I think is really interesting,we think about the international level,should there be an international systemof governance of migration?Should we have more effective global institutions?Because this is a global issue.So why shouldn't we have a more effective systemof global governance.And for students of international migrationthey should think about this and to do

    • 14:01

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: that you need to draw from concepts and ideasin the study of international relations.Because all of the evidence international relationswould suggest it's extremely difficult in an area that'sso close to sovereignty.The sovereignty of states.It is for such an issue then to becomethe subject of international cooperationso why would countries that are sending migrants and countries

    • 14:25

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: that are receiving migrants come togetherto create a common system given that their interests mightbe so different.Actually we see that with the UN Conventionon the Rights of Migrant Workers whichhas basically been signed by sending countriesand not signed by destination countries.No European country or member of the European Unionhas even signed neverm ratified the UN Convention on the Rights

    • 14:47

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: of Migrant Workers.Neither has the United States, Canada, or Australia.International governance, we know,grows out of the skepticism about the key capabilityof the international system to develop mechanismsfor the global governance of migration.But we can see there is quite a lotof international governance.

    • 15:09

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: One of the ideas that is quite interestinghere is the idea of a "regime complex."We don't have a single unified structureat the international level, a Global M Migration OOrganization analogous to the World Trade Organization.What you have are different regimesat the regional and international leveldealing with the different types of migration.

    • 15:29

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: So this system might have overlapping competencies,be complex, but also creates some potentialfor cooperation between states.Also particular kinds of migration, and itmay be focused on particular groupsof states working together.So one of the things is quite interesting isthe English-speaking destination countries: Australia, Canada,

    • 15:52

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: New Zealand, United States, United Kingdomwork together on migration.Share information.Share ideas.Meet annually, and talk about these issues.That's not global governance.They still want to maintain their sovereignty,but they realize that they share some interests.So to create a setting in which they can discuss these things.

    • 16:14

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES: Humanitarian protectionis absolutely fundamental.One of the things that's most strikingabout international migration is that what'sthe world's major destination countries somehowseem to imagine that that they are particularlysubject to international migration.And it's one of the most fundamental myths in the study

    • 16:35

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: of international migration.When you look at international protection system,and you look where people need protection or moving to,it is close to the areas of conflict or turbulencefrom which they are fleeing.So in the current situation in Iraqand in Syria and also the conflictthat's been occurring in Libya.

    • 16:56

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: People moving cross border to neighboring states,where actually reception facilities and waysin which they could accommodated and protectedare quite minimal.Placing enormous burden on international organizationssuch as the United Nations High Commissionfor refugees and other international organizations.And what's striking is that the world's major destination

    • 17:19

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: countries, the richer countries are reallyfinding it very difficult to demonstrate their commitmentto a system of international protection.So if we look at the European Union what we see iseffectively two countries -- Germany and Sweden --have stepped up and other countries are very reluctantto do so.There's an absence of solidarity which I think

    • 17:39

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: does question the future of international protection.You end up in a situation where the countries that are mostaffected by the kind of forced migration caused by conflicts,which we see in some parts of the worldand read about in our newspapers everyday,is actually leading to people moving into countries thatfind it very difficult to offer the kind of protections

    • 18:01

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: while richer countries that could probably do moreare reluctant to do more.If that situation persists, then thatraises serious questions about the maintenance of a systemof international protection.

    • 18:18

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES: So in termsof exciting new directions, migrationand environmental change is so important,but what it also shows just how migration is interlinkedwith the key global trends.Climate change, which isn't simply a migration issue,of course it isn't.It's a much wider issues that fundamentallyaffects the way that societies will evolve in the future.

    • 18:40

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: But migration is part of that.For people working on migration is very excitingto think how it can be a part of thatand how it connects to discussions about adaptation.Where I'd like to take my own research, whatI'm really interested in is how people whowork within governance systems, by which I mean people,officials, politicians, people in international organizations,

    • 19:02

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: from think tanks, civil society organization, whoplay some role in the governance of migration,maybe more centrally, maybe more periphery.But how they see these issues and how those understandingsare susceptible to change in the lightare scenarios about the future developmentnot just of migration but the economists

    • 19:24

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: and political systems of countries.In terms of a new research direction,what I'm trying to do in my current workis think about how people see these issues.Key decision makers see these issuesand how susceptible their understandings are to change.I think that's quite an interesting thingto do because we know quite a lot about why people move.

    • 19:44

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: That's kind of migration process,and we know quite a lot about the outputsof political systems, laws and policies.We don't tend to know so much about what the people whowork in these systems actually haveto think about these issues and how that plays outat the global level.So that's what I would like to do.

    • 20:06

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES: Well the majorof academic debates in the field of international migrationsometimes are perennial debates and sometimes academic expertsmight get be pursuing novelty, lookingfor things that are new.Actually the debates have been going on for a while.So one of the key debates is the regulation of migration.Border controls, who can enter, on what basis, what kind

    • 20:27

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: effects that out then has societies they move to,the societies they leave behind.That's a perennial and key debate.Why is it a key debate?Because we live in a world of states.States have borders.One of the key aspects of their sovereign authoritiesis to decide who can enter, who can't, all these kind of thingsthat we associate with immigration.That raises questions about law and policy

    • 20:50

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: but also normative and ethical questionsabout not just the ability states to regulate migration,but also their right to do so and the responsibilities theymay have.Not just to their own citizens but to non-citizens.So the regulation migration this is a perennial debateand controversial.

    • 21:10

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: The second debate perennially that occursis about the integration of migrants.This has always been associated with immigration.We can see in the 19th century.We can see it through the 20th centurywhere there's been concerned about some groups not adaptingto the norms of the society they move to.

    • 21:32

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: Obviously for religious reasons or for ethnic or racial reasonsthe way in which these ideas have been evidentand this is being seen to affect the integrationof all kinds of groups: the Irish in Britain,the Chinese in America, in Europe nowMuslims and their integration.This is controversial and we will remain controversial

    • 21:56

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: because it's a necessary feature of the migration process.People move.How then do states and societies respond to that movement.Like the regulation of migration,it's a practical and empirical question.What are the best laws?What are the best policies?But it's also a normative question.What obligation do societies have to their citizens,

    • 22:17

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: to non-citizens, to the accommodation new citizens.And also more internationally, to the kind of a global level.What kind of responsibilities do theyhave to protection of the rights of migrants.There are perhaps what could be callednew and emerging debates.So we've got the perennial issues: regulation of borders,

    • 22:39

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: integration of newcomers.But we also have new debates whichare also very controversial.One of which is the link between migration and development.Sometimes what we see is what couldbe called a simplistic understanding that developmentwill mean that migrants don't move.Because why would they move?

    • 22:59

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: Because development is a code for they're richer sowon't need to move.But what we actually know from the researchis that development can lead to migrationbecause it gives people the resourcesto enable them to move.One of the ideas that is often referred to in this debateis the so-called "migration hump."As the level of development increases what you initially

    • 23:21

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: see an increase in the level of migrationbefore you reach a point to a kind of migration transitionoccurs.Levels of emigration or perhaps immigration occurs.Turkey, for example, which is oftenseen as a country where people maybe perhaps looking to leave,but Turkey has experienced rapid economic development

    • 23:41

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: and is undergoing the migration transitionas people move to it.With less tendency for people to leave it.A final debate which I think is really importantis migration and climate change.What we see here.Why this is controversial is that many people said,well what you will have is climate changes.

    • 24:02

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: So the sea level rises, the land becomes drier perhapsand you can't farm.So what happens?Well you leave.But this idea that environmental changes a simple trick,a mechanism, environment changes people leave,has been seriously questioned because but those ideas areput forth by people who are essentially

    • 24:22

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: environmental scientist who weren't reallyexperts on migration.What experts on migration are out to showis that actually these kinds of simple tricksis to work quite so simply and straightforwardlyas people have imagined.The land maybe drier, it may thenaffect the sustainability of people's livelihoods.But if they haven't got the resources, they can't move.

    • 24:44

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: And some groups are less likely to be able to move.So children and women may be less likely to move.So they may then find ourselves in situationswhere the environment changes around them,but they're not able to move and in effect theycould be trapped in areas where they'reexposed to serious environmental hazard or risk.So this is a controversial debate.

    • 25:05

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: We can see that migration experts have enteredinto a debate that was initially drivenby environmental experts, who for veryvalid and important reasons are very concernedabout populations at risk.Then migration research has come and said well actually wecan't just see the environment is a simple triggerbecause other factors influence people's decisions to move.

    • 25:26

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: And one of those things will be the resources,economic resources, physical resources, strengthenand capability, and social resources,the networks you have to facilitate your movement.So this will be a controversial issue.I think migration research has been valuable in changingthe parameters of this debate.

    • 25:51

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES: Research methods are crucial.You can't do research unless you'reconscious of the choices that you make,the methods you employ, the strengthsand weaknesses of this approach or that approach.So any research requires some reflectionon the methods that are employed.And that's kind of interesting in a fieldsuch as migration which is very multidisciplinary.

    • 26:14

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: What I do in my research is draw the methodsthat are most commonly employed in political scienceand international relations whichcould be using existing data sets and analyzing that dataor generating my own data through interviews.Often what you have to decide at the beginning of the researchproject is, what's appropriate?What are you trying to do?Which will be the best sources of information?

    • 26:36

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: And also to be a reflexive researcherand think about the appropriateness of thoseand be able to justify the choices you make.So methods the methodology are crucial in the same way thathaving a clear conceptual frameworkand an idea about how your concepts could help you buildor a test theories.

    • 26:57

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: In terms of my own work what I currently dois try to understand how government systems areconstituted.Which is a kind of complicated way of saying,who the key decision makers?Who do they talk to?How is global migration governance made up?Who are the people?And so what I employ to do that is what's cold social network

    • 27:18

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: analysis where what you do is you not only justtalk to people but you get them to get more systematicallyto identify the people they talk to, to think about the valuesthat they exchange.And on the basis of that what you can dois kind of build a map.Now the map itself can be a bit complicated.

    • 27:40

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: And what I also want to try to dois understand not just how people connect,which could be lines on a diagram,but also what those lines signifyin terms of the exchanges of information and ideas.What it actually means, not just as an interaction occurring,but the significance of interaction.So currently I'm employing social network analysisto understand how international migration governance is

    • 28:02

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: constituted, how cooperation or interaction occursbecause beyond state borders.

    • 28:13

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES: I think international migrationresearch has all kinds of research whichhas had an influence on policy and practice.I provide one example, and it's oneI know well because I was involved in it,the work I did with the UK Government Office for Scienceled to report called "Migration and Global Environmental

    • 28:34

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: Change: Future Challenges and Opportunities."Thinking about the impact of migration--thinking about the impact of environmental changeon migration until 2060.This was what it was commissioned by UK governmentand was particularly driven by a concernthat there had been a misrepresentation of the core

    • 28:54

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: underlying dynamics here.They wanted entered into the debatethis idea that an environmental trigger will occur whichwould lead to millions of people being displaced,who may then move towards major destination countries, whowould then panic in the face of this movementand perhaps reinforce their borders.It kind of did lead, and not just in research, but also

    • 29:16

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: in media representations of apocalyptic changes linkedto disastrous environmental events.It's placing huge pressure on major destination countrieswill be under siege.So this was quite an important issuebecause that is a pretty serious misunderstandingof what is likely to happen.So what the research did for the UK government was think,

    • 29:39

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: Okay so let's not just focus on environmental change.Let's look at how that will interactwith the drives of migration, economic factors whichare the key drivers of immigration,and are likely to remain the key drivers, the social networksindividuals possess, the demographic characteristicsof the population, the political dynamics.And what we said, and which has had quite an impact on wider

    • 30:02

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: international debate, is it there isn't just one challengewhich is people being pushed away by environmental change,but there are number of challenges.We identified two of the challenges which we thoughtwere particularly important.The first of which was that migrationwill interact with other key global trends.

    • 30:22

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: And the most important of those isthe growth of urban areas in parts of Africa and Asia.Big coastal cities, people moving towards them,which will include migrants.People moving internally.People moving internationally to those cities.So we said that migration will interactwith these other trends.And what you see there's actuallypeople who may be leaving one place because they are exposed

    • 30:45

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: to environmental hazard but moving to an areawhere they may also be exposed to environmental hazardbecause many of the big cities in Africa and Asiaall coastal cities, exposed to the stress of rising sea level.Many migrants moving to areas wherethey are living inside the poorer parts of the cities.It's in informal settlements where

    • 31:06

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: there are all kinds of issues about the environmental risksto which they're exposed.So we spoke about that as a question.Migrants not moving away from dangerbut actually moving towards new kinds of risk.We also, and I think this was very important in termsof shaping public debate, said that it is completely wrongto imagine that what people do is respond to these triggers

    • 31:28

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: and migrate.All the evidence would suggest that whatyou need in order to be able to migrate are resources.Economic, physical, social.The kind of things that can facilitate your migration.If you don't have those resources,you're less likely to move.If the environment is changing, it may erode those resources.You may not have them.

    • 31:48

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: Economic, physical, social resourceswhich facilitate your migration.That can mean the populations becometrapped in areas where they're exposedto environmental change.So this was research that I thinkhas had an impact on wider international debateand tried to fundamentally change the way that we

    • 32:09

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: see the interaction between environmental changeand migration.It has been picked up within the European Union,within the United Nations system,and various other initiatives whichare trying to think about these kind of relationshipsand connect them to debates, not just about security,these kind of apocalyptic ideas that destination countries will

    • 32:29

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: be under siege, which is a narrow, limited, andfundamentally mistaken way of seeing these things,and actually think about how migrationconnects also to debates about adaptation and development.This research was fundamentally concerned with that kindof recasting of the debate.

    • 32:54

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES: The best bookto start with for any student of international migration,in my opinion, is "The Age of Migration"which has now reached it's fifth edition written by StephenCastles, Mark Miller, and Hein de Haas which I thinkis the best introduction to the global dynamics of migration.It's incredibly rich in the sources that it uses,and it's global focus, and it's multidisciplinary

    • 33:17

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: perspectives on these issues.It kind of shows you not only whatmigration is, but also shows you how it has been studied.The concepts and ideas that have been used, the methodsthat have been employed.As well as thinking about the more normative,the ethical issues that it raises.It think that's a really great starting point.Also to my own students I like to show films

    • 33:39

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: because I think that's a great way to engage with the issues.There are some fantastic films about international migrationwhich are very powerful because they represent migrants arepeople, not just as the objects of analysis in academic texts,but as people involved in processes

    • 34:00

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: which have really powerful effects on their lives.There's a fantastic film about child migrantsin Central America called "Which Way Home"which I've shown to my students.It's a tough one because it takes it out of the textbookand shows to students what actually happensto children traveling alone.

    • 34:22

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: The risk that they encounter and the way that they're treated.It's incredibly powerful and importantto students should be able to watch that kind of thingto complement the information they get from textbooks.A second film I use is a film by the British director MichaelWinterbottom called "In This World."That follows the journey of two migrants from Afghanistan

    • 34:47

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: and follows the route that they takeas they try to get to London.It's an amazingly powerful film.It's a great way to show the issues about protection, aboutthe smuggling, trafficking, all of the various dimensionsof this migration industry that academics might theorize aboutbut actually are then evident.

    • 35:08

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: You see states.You see their borders.You see all the kind of ethical issues it raisesand also what kind of practical issuesas they move from Afghanistan into Pakistan, make a journey,smuggle into Europe move through Europe and end up in London.I won't spoil the film, but it's a filmbut people really benefit from watching.

    • 35:34

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES: The key challengefor any students studying international migrationis it's such a huge field.I know from talking to my students in the Universityof Sheffield how they struggle initiallyto make sense of all this.There is so much of it and it's happening everywhere.It's happened for decades, and it'sgoing to happen in the future.What I try to say to them is, wellis no substitute for reading so your own engagement

    • 35:58

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: with the subject should drive your interest.So the more you read, the more ableyou are to kind of deal with these questions.But I also say that it's really importantto try think conceptually about these things.To try and understand, not only what is happening,but trying to organize in your mind.To draw from the concepts, ideas, and theoriesthat are prevalent in the literature.

    • 36:19

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: And try to apply those to the specific cases in which youmight be interested.So one strategy that students often employis to focus on particular areas of that might interest them.Particular types of migration, particular regionswhere migration is an important political trend.And what I often do is refer them backto the kind of classics I see in the literature

    • 36:40

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: which provide the tools for them to do the job.The concepts, the ideas that allowthem to organize the material.Otherwise it's just a huge mountain of empirical materialwhich they find almost impossible to dealwith because as you climb discuss higher and higherand higher.There is more and more information.So to try and abstract from that and think conceptually

    • 37:02

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: about these issues.The second challenge that students faceis really their own engagement issues.There engagement with the issues is obviously really positivebecause it's a very strong motivational factor.It might be what draws students towards the studyof international migration.But at times it's also important to step back a little bit.So sometimes I will be talking to my studentsand something might happen they might ask me what

    • 37:23

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: I think about these things.For instance in October 2013, hundreds of migrants, men,women, and children, drowned off the coast of Europewhen their boat sunk.That was a terrible humanitarian tragedythese people refer to as illegal immigrants.They were men, women, and children who drowned off

    • 37:45

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: the coast of Europe.And students wanted to talk aboutand wanted to know what do I think about these things.And actually what I try to do is then turn it aroundas say it's not important what I think,the important thing is what do you think about these things.And then they may have engaged opinions.Because they often think it's horrific and that somethingmost be done.

    • 38:06

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: Then the next question is, well what should be doneand who should do it, are they likely to do it?And then to kind of step back from issueand think about, well if you think something should be done?What should be done?Who should do it?How should they do it?When should it be done?What would that involve in terms of costs and resources?And so that kind of engagement can drive your interest

    • 38:27

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: in the subject, but also at some pointsis necessary to step back if you wantto analyze these questions.And think well terrible human tragedylike this shows the something really important,which we really need to think about in terms of how statesrespond, how they should respond, what they should do,and what that means.So it's not enough to say something must be done.

    • 38:49

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: It's also important to try to think about well, who'sgoing to do it?

    • 38:57

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES: It's an important questionthat academics have to think about is the public impactthat their research.For some academics they might say,well I don't have a responsibilityto have a public impact, but I don't share that view.I think the research that I'm doing doeshave or potentially have a wider impact on public debate.

    • 39:19

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: Because I'm interested in m I've alsodone work which is focused not juston the kind of academic analysis of policy,but actually trying to engage with governmentsabout the policies that they makein the effects of those policies.So for instance I've been involvedin what's called the MIPEX Project which is the Migrant

    • 39:42

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: Integration Policy Index.I was not-- I was involved with that in its early phases,trying to compare and also evaluate integrationpolicies in Europe.It has now developed into a much bigger project thatlooks not at Europe and only in Europe, but alsobeyond European, and compares and contrasts

    • 40:03

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: the legal and political frameworks regulatingthe integration of migrants.I was also involved in workflow with the UK governmenton what's called gang masters whoare temporary labor providers.It could be a guy with a white van and a mobile phonejust transporting people to work in a field.Or it could be a major international recruitment

    • 40:24

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: company.So I was involved in working for an agency established by the UKgovernment to understand more about how this operates.I was able to use my research expertise to try and also shapea framework to protect the rights of temporary workers,many of whom are migrants working in sectors thatare bit difficult to regulate.

    • 40:44

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: And I've also been involved in workon the environmental migration.Rethinking the challenges of migrationlinked to environmental change.The contribution of international migrationresearch to society is enormous.I think many of the ideas that now inform and animatepublic debate have their origins in research

    • 41:05

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: on international migration.But one of the challenges for international migrationresearch is to make connections.I think there could be a tendencyfor international migration researchersto talk to each other.One of the things that international migrationresearchers need to do is talk to people workingin related fields and that's difficult. So for instance,

    • 41:26

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: how do you connect international migrationto broader debates about development,about adaptation, about peace and security.Those kind of connections are really important.So academic work on international migrationcan inform and does inform the ideaswe have about migration citizenship,but the same time migration research

    • 41:47

      PROFESSOR ANDREW GEDDES [continued]: can also play a role in informing debatesabout development, adaptation, peace and security.

International Migration

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Abstract

Professor Andrew Geddes situates international migration as an interdisciplinary field combining aspects of international relations, sociology, and geology. He discusses key issues and debates in the field, including the relative impact of migration on destination states, the effect of climate change on immigration, and how perceptions shape immigration policy.

SAGE Video Experts
International Migration

Professor Andrew Geddes situates international migration as an interdisciplinary field combining aspects of international relations, sociology, and geology. He discusses key issues and debates in the field, including the relative impact of migration on destination states, the effect of climate change on immigration, and how perceptions shape immigration policy.

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