Daya Thussu Discusses Digital Communication

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    • 00:05

      DAYA THUSSU: International communication, for me,is communication between governments,communication between states.Because I think despite all the changesin the world of communication-- for example,the invention and expansion of internet-- the statestill remains, to me at least, a very important categoryfor any analysis of how people communicate aroundthe world, in terms of policy, in terms of content, in termsof infrastructure for communication.

    • 00:41

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: So governments and states remain very important.And international communication isabout how governments communicate with each other.Of course, there are also other dimensionsto international communication.Global communication, if you like--transnational communication-- which is alsoabout communication people to people outside the government,between corporations.

    • 01:07

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And that's also becoming increasinglyimportant in this age of digital connectivity.But the primary focus of my work hasbeen the international communication bit of it,which is really about how states and governments interactwith each other internationally.

    • 01:28

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: I had a master's in history and politics.I had two master's, in fact.And I had a PhD in international relations.But I also was working as a journalist,first in India at a major news agency--in fact, the national news agency in Delhi,while I was doing my PhD, and also in London,where I worked for a little bit small, alternative,international news features agency.

    • 01:58

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: So a combination of academic backgroundin international relations and international politics,and professional experience of international journalismin two different contexts, New Delhi and London.New Delhi-- mostly India-centric;London-- much more global.And that really prompted my interestin trying to combine my academic backgroundwith my professional experience.

    • 02:26

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And it has been a very interesting journey.Because even today, in many international relationsor international politics departments,not many people are really interested in communicationor media-- international media.Similarly, in media and communicationor cultural studies departments, thereare very few people who are interested or havethe expertise on international affairs.

    • 02:54

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: So I'm, in some ways, an odd kindof character in terms of my academicand my professional background.And I was only the second professorof international communication in the UK.The first professor was the late Phil Taylorwho was a historian by training, and he set upthe first year of international communicationsat University of Leeds in the UK.

    • 03:17

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And I was the second one.So I've been really researching, writing,thinking about international aspects of communicationfor a pretty strong time.Because my PhD was also somehow connected with communicationaspects of international relations.So there is a long association.

    • 03:37

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And that experience of working in the media environment--I think that's really helped me in the way I workin my academic job.Because one thing journalism teachesyou is that you have to be quick.And you have to be able to find the lead, as they say.

    • 04:00

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: So you're good at processing information.You're good at prioritizing information.And you're also connected with the real world.So if you look at my work all these years,there is a kind of real-world feel to it,because I do need to be connectedwith what is happening on the ground.And I think that training of journalism,both in India and the UK, has contributed to that.

    • 04:24

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: International communication as a fieldis a relatively new field.And it emerged largely in the Western academia-- US, UK,and a few places in Europe.And people like me, who come from a slightly differentbackground in terms of education and cultural experience--one of the things that I've always been thinking aboutis that the discourse of international communicationneeds to be broadened.

    • 04:58

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: It is mostly about what the best does in x part or ypart of the world, at a time wheninternational communication has become so much morecomplicated, also in relation to for example growth of mediaindustries in countries like China, India, Brazil, Japan,South Korea.

    • 05:23

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And increasingly, even in Western academia,there is a greater awareness of this, and thereforegreater involvement with trying to understand those trends.It's got, also, something to do with the changingprofile of students in university in the UKand certainly in the US, where in recent yearsthere has been a great deal of internationalizationof student profile.

    • 05:56

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: So for example, where I teach in London,I teach a program on global media,which I set up ten years ago.It's a very successful program.And 90% of students that we have on that programare from outside the UK.So then you have to take into accountwhat is happening in different parts of the world, what'shappening in Russia, in China, in India, in Africa,in Arab world, et cetera.

    • 06:22

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: So I think that has had an impacton how the discipline itself, the field itself, has expandedand broadened.The other thing that has happened in recent years,especially in the last decade, is that faculty alsohas been internationalized.Especially in the United States and UK--not so much in many other European countries--they're still very traditional in that sense.

    • 06:50

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: But increasingly in the US and UK,you see a lot of people now workingin the university sector who were born outside the countrieswhere they work in.In the UK, I think the figure is ashigh as 30% of all faculty in higher education comprisedof people who were born outside the UK.

    • 07:11

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And I think that brings a different kind of perspective,a different kind of expertise, a different kind of experience.For example, in my own department,which is the top-rated department in communicationin the UK, we have four geographic centers.

    • 07:33

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: We have a China Media Center.We have an Arab Media Center.We have a Africa Media Center.And I've been involved in setting up an India MediaCenter.And these centers emerged because therewere people with expertise on different parts of the world.We have a Zimbabwean colleague.We have a Moroccan colleague.We have a colleague with expertise in China.

    • 07:53

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And I think that is something yousee in many other places around the world.In other words, international communicationis more internationalized today than wasthe case even 10 years ago, and primarilybecause of the changing profile of students and faculty.And as well as this massive growthin media and communication industriesin the non-Western world.

    • 08:17

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: So there are various reasons for academiato take that into account, and broaden the syllabus,and research areas, et cetera.And that's already happening.Well the biggest growth, really, is in Asia, particularlyChina and India, partly because the scale and scope of growthis so enormous.

    • 08:43

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: You have 1.3 billion people in China, 1.2 billionin India, both fast-growing economies.China for the last 20 years has been growing double digit.It's unprecedented in human history.India is also growing 6%, 7%.Only last year it was about 5%.

    • 09:06

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And if you look at media industries, for example,in both China and India, India hassomething in the range of 300 news channels.It's more than entire news operations in Europe.Many of these are not proper news channels.

    • 09:26

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: They're these money-making exercises.But there is that enormous growth in numbers.China already has the world's largest blogging population.But only just over 40% are online.In India the figure is much smaller.It's about, I think, 17%.

    • 09:49

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: But internet is changing very, very rapidly,because mobile internet is coming in both these countries.And as 3G becomes affordable, and 4G becomes accessible,it's going to change the internet.Just imagine what will happen when not 17% but 70% percentare online in India.

    • 10:15

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: That translates into 700 million users.That's the combined population of the United Statesand Europe.In China, it's even bigger.So when we think of the internet,we really think about the English language internet.

    • 10:36

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And I think one of the most exciting thingsis how it's going to develop in these two countries.And what implication will it haveon how we teach international communication?And it's just one area.But you could look at other fields, too.I mean, India is the largest film-producing factoryin the world.They've been producing more filmsthan Hollywood since the 1970s.

    • 11:01

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: China has a massive investment in communicationinfrastructure, not just in China but alsoin other parts of the world, including in Africa.And that has implications of how Africangovernments deal with communication issues.Because they're now drawing on not justthe Western discourses about development communication,for example.But they also have other models to look at, primarilycoming from China.

    • 11:25

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: So that world is at a very, very interesting juncture.And I'm not so sure that the academe has reallyunderstood its implications.Businesses do.But I think academia, generally speaking,is a conservative institution.

    • 11:46

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And it takes time for people to go into greater depthto understand what the implications of these changesare.But they are happening.I mean, there is no doubt about it.And the base is going to grow as technologiesbecome more accessible.

    • 12:06

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: If you think of internet, for example, and if youlook at the history of the internet,it emerged from the US.It had a military security kind of background.It had a Cold War history.It was only in the 1990s that it was privatized and globalized.

    • 12:27

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: So it's still understandable to see internetas an American phenomenon.If you look at who are the major digital corporations,most of them are based in the US.Like any new technology, it opens uplots of possibilities-- a great deal of disruption.

    • 12:50

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And I think in big countries-- I mentioned China and India,but you could include Brazil.You could include Turkey.You could include Nigeria.You could include Indonesia in it.There is a transformation underwayin terms of how people use digital technology, how they'reproducing their own content, how these messages are nowcirculating on the global superhighways,in volume and in speed unimaginable in history.

    • 13:30

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And then there's a demographic aspect to it, also.India, for example-- 70% of Indiansare below the age of 25.That translates into 700 million people.Now the majority of them are poor,and are likely to remain poor despite good economic growthin the last 25 years.

    • 13:53

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: But even if 30% of that was engaging activelywith digital technology-- which is already happening.There are 100 million Facebook users in India.It's worth thinking about what kind of contentwill they be circulating on digital superhighways.

    • 14:14

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: What kind of jokes will there be?Who will be the celebrities?What kind of discourse will there be?In what language?So we have to really de-Americanize the internet.Because it's just that the numbers are such thatwe can't use the old pattern.There are all kinds of issues associated with the internet,but I think in terms of what is coming,the growth of digital content coming outof China, India, Brazil, et ceterais going to really make for a new kind of discourseabout international communication.

    • 14:60

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And increasingly, academics are taking that on board.Because if you look at my own experience,I mean I've been involved in this for some time.I edit a journal called Global Media and Communication, a SAGEJournal.It's been going for 10 years.And when we set up the journal, the idea reallywas to globalize the discourse.

    • 15:20

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: It cannot just be Western discourse.Primarily because there is massive growthof media and communication in the non-Western world,at a time when actually, media industries are facing trouble.Journalism is facing trouble in the US or in the UK,at the time when in other places, like in China or India,actually newspaper circulation is growing.

    • 15:45

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: So the idea was to really expand the terms of debate.And that kind of the discourse is not justhappening in Western academia.In fact, in China, for example, they'reinvesting a lot of time and effortto also take on board these internationalizingtrends in media and communication studies.

    • 16:15

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: Linkage is emerging, say, between BRICS countries,for instance-- Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa.And one of the things I'm doing at the moment, in fact,is a book simply on mapping BRICS media.That hasn't been done before.

    • 16:37

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: Although these are very different countries--Brazil is very different from China.China is very different from India.India is very different from Russia.In terms of the political systems,in terms of the media systems, in terms of the numbers,et cetera-- histories, cultures, everything is very different.But there are also interesting similarities,in the sense that they are all non-Western countries.

    • 17:03

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And they're increasingly meeting every year.There's a summit of BRICS nations.And they are also increasingly exchanging content.The trade between China and India--it was nonexistent at the beginning of 1990s.Today it's like $70 billion.So China is India's largest trading partner.

    • 17:28

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: This is the other globalization, happeningoutside the Western radar.And to me, that's really the exciting aspect of-- how do youtake that into board when you're lookingat international communication?And it's my own modest way of tryingto broaden the discourse.

    • 17:48

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: If you're looking at a place like China or India or Iran,these are very old countries.They're not just countries.They're civilizations.So if we're really seriously interestedin understanding contemporary China or contemporary India,or contemporary Iran, you have to go back a little bit.

    • 18:13

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And one of the major problems with our field of communicationis that it's really ahistorical.We look at communication in a very modern mass media sense.And one of the books that I've just published, actually,is on soft power, and India's soft power.

    • 18:35

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: It's the first book on India's soft power-- book-length study.And I went back all the way to Buddha.The book is called Communicating India's Soft Power-- Buddhato Bollywood.And my argument was if you look at the spread of Buddhismfrom India to much of Asia and beyond,which happened 2,500 years ago, and even today, Buddhismis a very influential-- arguably the most important-- exportfrom India as an idea.

    • 19:11

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: Now how was that communicated?And was that soft power or hard power?If you look at Joseph Nye's formulationof the concept of soft power, it's very American.It's very much focused on the United States.And he doesn't make any apologies about it.

    • 19:32

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: This is a book about American soft power.But the word Buddhism doesn't appear in it.And is Buddhism hard or soft power?And it has been there for 2,500 years.It's enduring power.It's not the power of MTV or the power of a website.It's a deeper, philosophical, intellectual, cultural power.

    • 19:55

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: I mention this because I think thereis a major problem with communicationcourses in their lack of history.And for Western academia, and indeed international academia,to take on board these massive changes whichare taking place in China and India and elsewhere,they will have to do a bit of un-learning,and a lot of re-learning.

    • 20:27

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And that's not easy.Because as I said earlier, if you'rein a privileged position, you tell the worldthis is how the world is.And if somebody is saying well actually, no.The world is more complicated.Then you have to revisit history books.

    • 20:49

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And I think that's the big challenge.How do you develop a course on international communicationwhich takes on board these ancient connections?How did Buddhism travel from India to China?What was the communicative aspect of this?How were those texts translated?

    • 21:11

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: There's very little work on it.People write about Buddhist philosophy.There are studies of war and conflict.But actually, the communicative aspect of itis hugely under-researched.And it's just one example.You could replicate these examplesin different parts of the world.There has to be a really new paradigm whichtakes communication in its historical context,going back a long way.

    • 21:38

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: Well I have been really fortunate, actually.Because I've had the privilege to work with some fantasticacademics in the field.I have been more influenced and inspiredby scholars who have had a more critical research agenda.

    • 22:04

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And one name which really inspiredme-- and I've been fortunate to have worked with him--is Herbert Schiller, who did some fantastic workabout international communication-- and veryinfluential work.And it's rooted in a particular critical tradition whichlooks at institutions and ideologies and structures.

    • 22:26

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And I found that extremely useful in my own work.The other person who I found really usefulin terms of international communication researchis a very distinguished European scholar, Cees Hamelink.

    • 22:47

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And his work has had this kind of humanistic dimension to it--an ethical dimension to it.Of course, Schiller also has an ethical--but that's more from a critical particular economicperspective.In the case of Hamelink, there isa deeper humanistic tradition which I appreciate.

    • 23:10

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: So these two people have been very importantin my own evolution as a scholar in this field.Well it's interesting.Because today, critical research is increasingly marginalized.Because what we have is an increasing amountof what the Americans used to call administrative research.

    • 23:35

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: We don't seem to be asking the "why" question.We do a lot of "how" questions.How do you do this?How do you do that?But actually, why is this happening?I don't think we ask many of those questions.And critical researchers do that as a rule.That's the primary thing they're interested in.

    • 23:55

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: They're interested in questions of power.And I think especially in this internet ageand digital "empowerment" that you can send an emailand suddenly we become powerful, a critical scholarwould ask more fundamental questionsabout who wields that power.

    • 24:19

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: How is that power exercised?Who is in control of structures and institutions?What is the role of ideology in it?So I've been always working within that paradigmthat you have to ask critical questions.

    • 24:39

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: Otherwise, what's the point of being at a university?You might as well work for a corporation,and earn a lot more money.Universities are the only places where you have that space--that intellectual autonomy to ask those questions,and ask them critically-- the "why" question--and encourage students to think critically,to ask intelligent questions about the social phenomena.

    • 25:10

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And I think unfortunately, in recent years,as I said earlier, there is a sort of marginalizationof this tradition, while softer subjects get more prominence.I mean, one example would be to look at research projects.

    • 25:32

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: What kind of projects get approved?It would be a fantastic project to look at the top universitiesin the US, for example-- in communication departments, whatare the teams the students are dealing with?At a time when we had the worst economic experiencesince the 1930s.

    • 25:56

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: At a time when there is open-endedand global war on terror.Although it's not called "war on terror" now, officially.But there is a serious problem.That doesn't seem to be reflectedin a lot of academic work.Because that edge that Herb Schiller specializedin-- that's increasingly being bluntedby relatively softer subjects.

    • 26:22

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And to me, this deeply problematic.And to me, that's also deeply political.Because that's connected with the political economy of highereducation-- how projects are funded.Who decides what is the fashionable topic?And increasingly, universities are almostbeing forced to pursue certain kinds of projectsbecause funding is connected to that.

    • 26:52

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And I think that to me is a worrying trend.Because if universities lose that space within whicha critical discourse takes place--I'm not saying everything should be critical.Of course not.University is open to all kinds of ideas.But if we are increasingly marginalizingthe "why" question, then it has implications for policy,for social aspects, for political aspects.

    • 27:20

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And universities have a major roleto play in that, to ask that questionin a detached, objective way, without any personal axeto grind, but to add to a discourse,to push the envelope a little bit.I think, as I said earlier, one major challenge to do historyproperly.

    • 27:43

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: I think that's a huge gap in our field, particularly.The other, I think, is also this broad thing called culture.In the media and communication field,the definition of culture is so narrowthat it really is not very valuable,at least in my estimation.

    • 28:08

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: Culture is a complicated term.Raymond Williams, a very famous scholar,once said that culture is the most difficult wordin the English language.And there has been this massive growth of cultural studiesin the last 20 years-- not just in the Western academe,but globally.But in fact, understanding of culture to meseems to be very limited.

    • 28:34

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: It's often seen in relation to how country X or culturey is reacting to the West or to the US.It's understandable, because the USis the most dominant cultural power in the world.Its culture is everywhere, especially its popular culture.

    • 28:54

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And how people engage with that, adapt to it, is important.But culture is not just that superficial adaptation.So if we look at China, for example, if we justsee it in relation to how the Chinese are westernizingor Americanizing, I don't think that will tell usa lot of valuable stuff about China.

    • 29:21

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: We have to go back a little bit, that Chinais where it is today because it is a very old country.It's a civilization.And also, there's a big debate in Asia these daysabout not the rise of Asia, but the return of Asia.That's a different discourse.

    • 29:42

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: Because until the 18th century, 40% of global GDPcame from Asia.Now shouldn't students know that to understandwhy China is where it is today?So in that sense, culture and history are connected.And that's one challenge which really wehaven't adequately addressed in the Western academe--but also in these countries itself,because the field is so new.

    • 30:13

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: If you look at communication studiesin China or India or Brazil, it'soften derivatives come from the West.And it's the early stages.The faculty isn't really engaging with these issuesthat I've mentioned to you just now.So it'll take time.So I would say that culture and history aretwo areas which need a lot more attention.

    • 30:37

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: One area which is particularly close to my own interest,and I think is potentially very interesting,is the cultural and communicative interactionwithin the non-Western world.Because traditionally it has alwaysbeen how a particular country relates to the West.

    • 31:02

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: But a more interesting question wouldbe how do Brazilians relate to Japanese, howEgyptians relate to Russians.And in fact, I have been working in this field for some time.I did a book a few years back for Routledge.It's called Media On The Move-- Global Flow and Contra-flow.

    • 31:23

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: The idea of contra-flow-- that not everything is emanatingform New York or LA or London or Paris.There are also interesting creative and culturalindustries that have emerged in other parts of the world.Whether it is telenovelas, for example,from Brazil and Mexico, or animation from Japan,or Bollywood from India, or Turkish soap operas--they've been very, very popular across the former kindof central Soviet Union, as far back as Afghanistan and Iran.

    • 32:06

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: Or the Korean wave, K-pop-- very popular in East Asia--or Al Jazeera, the pan-Arabic networkwhich is now globalized-- and I think how these are received,and how these actually create a more globalized discoursefor international media and communication--that's really exciting for me.

    • 32:35

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And there's already recognition of this phenomenon,but also increasing research beingdone on it in different parts of the world-- early stages,I grant you, but potentially very, very interesting.I think within that, within this kind of, if you like,horizontal flow of ideas, and notjust vertical-- not from north to south,but actually south to south, as well as south to north--I think that's very interesting.

    • 33:08

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And within that multiple flow, multi-lingual, multi-vocal,multi-dimensional, what will happen between Chinaand India, given the scale and scope of that change?I think to me personally, that's the most significantdevelopment-- how that maps out.

    • 33:31

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And how, then, that really forcesus to rethink what constitutes the global.Because traditionally, global is "extension of the West."So we say, OK, BBC is a global news broadcaster,just to give you an example.

    • 33:55

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: The BBC's not available in China,only in five-star hotels.In India, the audience is so smallthat it doesn't measure on any measuring mechanisms.That means 40% of the world's population is not watching it.

    • 34:18

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: So can we call the BBC a world broadcaster?I think these are the kinds of questionsthat we need to be raising.And then saying, well actually, the worldis much more complicated than we've been made to believe.That is not to say that big corporationsor powerful countries like the United States cease to matter.

    • 34:44

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: In fact, they matter enormously.And they're likely to matter for some time to come.But when you look at the overall picture,it's much more complicated.It's not just one size fits all.It's different sizes, different languages, different cultures.And I think how that then maps out in the coming decadesis going to be the most exciting area of research.

    • 35:10

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: Global has traditionally been seen as extension of the West.And it's interesting how this phrase--this global, globalization, globalize,these phrases-- have become very popular in the 1990s.And it's interesting because as the Cold War ended,globalization became the big idea.

    • 35:35

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: If you do a Google search, and lookat titles of academic books with "global" in it,or journal articles with "global" in it,you're likely to find a vast majority of thesehave been published after the 1990s.And that definition of global is extension of the West.

    • 35:59

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: So global is a replacement for the West.Now I can see why that was the case.Because it was, actually.Globalization meant extension of Western modernity,Western market democracy, opening of new territories--China, the Soviet Union, many developing countries whichwere suddenly opened up to international consumer cultureand democratic ideas.

    • 36:34

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: There's lots of churning going on in the early '90s.So in that sense, global was seen understandablyas extension of the West, and what West indicated,what it symbolized, which was a particular versionof modernity.But I think looking at it now in 2014,one would have to say there are multiple modernities.

    • 37:02

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: We need to kind of problematize the term "global" itself.It cannot just be extension of the West.Probably, we are living in a multi-polar world.We just don't talk about the "Washington Consensus,"without also speaking of the Beijing Consensus.There are different models.

    • 37:26

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And I think what the Chinese have achievedin terms of being able to raise 400 million people outof poverty in the last 20 years without any major socialupheaval-- which by the way is unprecedentedin human history-- that is a huge impact.

    • 37:47

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: If you're sitting in a small country in Africa, and saying,well, these guys have managed it.They have become a big power.So the idea that the Western modelis the most successful and worth emulatingis being questioned-- increasingly being questioned.

    • 38:11

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And therefore we need to redefine what global is.And already I think the debate has started.I mean, I've written about it.And other people have too.Media and communication studies areone of the fastest growing academic fields of inquiry,particularly in those emerging markets-- China, India, Brazil,as well.

    • 38:36

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: Unfortunately, especially where I work in the UK,there is a certain snootiness associatedwith the academic world.And media and communication is traditionallyseen as not a proper, academically rigorous degree.

    • 38:58

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: In the UK especially, they had a very strong vocational aspectto teaching media and communications.They were taught in what were called the polytechnics.They were not taught in traditional universities.Although it has changed.Major universities from LSC to Oxford to Edinborough-- theyall now teach in some shape or form communication coursesand media courses.

    • 39:29

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: So it's a growing field.It is also, in terms of employment for students,one of the most successful areas.Communication [INAUDIBLE], not just journalism or media,but broadly speaking, communicationis a growing field.I don't have exact figures, but Iwould have thought that you're much morelikely to get a decent job if you have a communicationbackground than you do with a straightforward humanitiesor social science degree.

    • 40:01

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: Also, if you look at a more global scene,because of the growth in communication industriesand media industries in many countries, especiallybig countries, there's a huge potentialfor jobs-- already existing and potential jobs.So it's a very successful positionto be in, not just in the West but indeed globally.

    • 40:29

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: I think it has to really internationalize further--internationalizing the canon, internationalizing mediahistories, internationalizing comparative research,thinking of new ways of doing researchin different countries.

    • 40:57

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: So countries in Africa or Asia don't become just case studies.We have the theory and these guys are just case studies.We have to think of how we developnew theoretical frameworks within which we understandthese new emerging phenomena.And I think time for that has already come.And already, work is beginning to take shape.

    • 41:18

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: Of course, it will take some time.Because you see, one of the things I emphasize is the word"internationalize."I don't use the phrase "de-Westernize,"which is also an interesting discourse.But that has a negative connotation to it.And I've always argued that thereis extremely valuable work done in media and communicationsstudies largely in the Western academe.

    • 41:44

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: That's where it emerged.So we can't just discount that.That's very valuable work.But given the world we are livingin today, the complexity of the world we are living in today--the thing I mentioned to you earlier abouthow the internet is going to change--we need to further internationalize.

    • 42:09

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And that is not just a cosmetic exercise.It requires a serious intellectual engagement.And it won't happen overnight.It won't happen by one person or two people or six people.It has to be incorporated in the canon you develop.What is it that you should tell your students theyshould read about the world?

    • 42:31

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: How can they understand communication phenomena?And I think that internationalizationand contribution of various people,various academics in that field-- I mean as I said,already work is being done, primarilybecause the faculty is changing.

    • 42:59

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And there's a lot of material to work with.So I think the commutative effect of thisis going to be that perforce, the old schoolwill have to give space, broaden the discourse,do a bit of un-learning, do a lot of re-learning.

    • 43:20

      DAYA THUSSU [continued]: And I think in the next few years,if not decades, I think things will change.And it's already changing.So I feel very optimistic.Internationalization is not an option.It is a necessity.

Daya Thussu Discusses Digital Communication

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Daya Thussu discusses global communications with a more cultural view. As discussed in the interview he acknowledges the non-western countries and their progression in global communications. With examples on how China has the largest blogging and India the most news channels. He explains that with changes, internationalizing will become a necessity in our future and that the idea of "unlearning" and "re-learning" may become inevitable. Also, Thussu informs us of how technology and the use of mobile media can change Global Communications.

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Daya Thussu Discusses Digital Communication

Daya Thussu discusses global communications with a more cultural view. As discussed in the interview he acknowledges the non-western countries and their progression in global communications. With examples on how China has the largest blogging and India the most news channels. He explains that with changes, internationalizing will become a necessity in our future and that the idea of "unlearning" and "re-learning" may become inevitable. Also, Thussu informs us of how technology and the use of mobile media can change Global Communications.

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