Restorative Justice

View Segments Segment :

  • Citations
  • Add to My List
  • Embed
  • Help
  • Citations
  • Add to My List
  • Embed
  • Help
Successfully saved clip
Find all your clips in My Lists
Failed to save clip
  • Transcript
  • Transcript

    Auto-Scroll: ONOFF 
    • 00:06


    • 00:11

      JO BERRY: My name is Jo Berry.I founded a charity, Building Bridges for Peaceas a response to losing my father, Sir Anthony Berry,in a terrorist attack in Brighton in 1984.[THE GRAND HOTEL, BRIGHTON, OCTOBER 12, 1984]He was a Tory MP, attending a Conservative Party conference.And in 2000, I met the one personwho'd been held responsible for plantingthe bomb, Patrick Magee.

    • 00:34

      JO BERRY [continued]: And we started working together soon after the first meeting,and the charity is to support our workand all nonviolent means to resolve conflict.

    • 00:48

      PATRICK MAGEE: We targeted the Brighton,because we were targeting the people we felt,in power, who had abused their power.And they were Tories, and there were label,and we had that very reduced view of the enemy.At a very early stage, I got this feelingthat this guy who I killed-- I'm talking with his daughter--

    • 01:10

      PATRICK MAGEE [continued]: he at least in part was responsible for the goodness Iperceived in Jo.

    • 01:16

      JO BERRY: I could see that he was someone who thought verydeeply, and he had sensitivity.But also, he was justifying killing my father.And for me, that could never be a strategy.It changed my life in every possible way.

    • 01:34

      PATRICK MAGEE: I came out of jail with a mindfor the peace process, a big part of whichwas talking to victims, dealing with the legacyof the conflict.And so the only assurance I wouldhave sought, that it would not be a confrontational meeting.And people who had met Jo assured me, no, she's

    • 01:56

      PATRICK MAGEE [continued]: a very interesting person, just wants to understand.She wants her father's death put into a context.Well, we were basically strugglingagainst the abuse of state power, a British state thathad imposed partition of our country, which

    • 02:18

      PATRICK MAGEE [continued]: had major ramifications for generations of people.And we felt locked into this gerrymandered state.We had no power, and that lack of power led to violence.[MUSIC PLAYING]

    • 02:39

      JO BERRY: I wanted to meet Patrick to see him as a humanbeing, to see the man beyond the label-- hewas given lots of labels-- and to hear his story.It was a lot of inner work I coulddo to imagining how he would be, but actually sitting with himand seeing him in the flesh, hearing his words,

    • 02:59

      JO BERRY [continued]: would help me in my own healing.Pat did apologize for killing my father.He opened up, and took off his political hat of justificationand opened up, and began to really listen to me,and share deeply about himself.

    • 03:20

      JO BERRY [continued]: So he revealed a lot of his vulnerability,and who he really was, and shared his story.So what had become, what had been more aboutmy need then became about our need.We both had a need to meet.And Pat began to see that he'd demonized my dad,and actually he killed a wonderful human being.

    • 03:42

      JO BERRY [continued]: And that was more than I'd bargained for, that I wantedor hoped for.[MUSIC PLAYING]

    • 03:51

      PATRICK MAGEE: I think if you had been more argument,I'd have felt it easier to handle,and the political hat wouldn't have come off.But in a sense, because you had demonstrated this willingnessjust to listen to me without being judgmental, in a sense

    • 04:14

      PATRICK MAGEE [continued]: that disarmed me.

    • 04:17

      JO BERRY: Right from the beginning,I never wanted to blame anyone.That was always really clear with me.If I blamed anyone, it made someone elseresponsible for my pain, and I was going to lose twice.I'd lose my father, and then I'd lose some of my humanity,and be like giving my power away.So this is about taking responsibilityfor my pain and my grief, and expressing it

    • 04:39

      JO BERRY [continued]: in a really safe way.Justice is about when we re-humanize each other.And we can feel the effects of that.So for me, that now that Pat knowshe killed a wonderful human being,and he's gone through a process I

    • 04:59

      JO BERRY [continued]: think you're probably still going through,coming to terms with that.That helps me.And from my side, that rather than justhave somebody with a label, nor a very nice label,now there's someone in my life who I care about,and I see his humanity.

    • 05:21

      JO BERRY [continued]: That then helps my own humanity.Because when the bomb went off, I justfelt like something had been severed in my life,like a connection, like suddenly I did have an enemy,and I didn't want an enemy.And so through restoring that-- and somehow in the middleof that restoration is my dad.And so that's really healing.

    • 05:44

      PATRICK MAGEE: In subsequent meetings, I listened a lot,and Jo was explaining things about her father,and her daughters.And so you get this growing pictureof her father, who beforehand had been this cipher.

    • 06:05

      JO BERRY: When-- first time you saidyou could sit down and have a cup of tea with him--the Conservative government weren't into having cupswith the IRA-- but the fact that you could evensay it means a lot to me, and yousaid you'd killed someone with a soul.That means a lot to me.

    • 06:23

      PATRICK MAGEE: Well, the sense that wewere able to have those conversations,and I felt, I got the sense that I could talk to your father.It was a real sense, it wasn't just words.I got the feeling that Jo's da was the type of personyou could sit, and would have been amenable, approachable,and you could sit and talk.

    • 06:43

      PATRICK MAGEE [continued]: And he might even understand your perspective.You know, as I said, I think for methat was the most shocking thing, thatin front of the world's camera's,witnesses, all the stares of the people,they did that, and got away with it for years.

    • 07:04

      PATRICK MAGEE [continued]: Even now, the view of exactly what happened stilldoesn't go unchallenged.Still people prepared to make excuses.So I found that shocking.

    • 07:17

      JO BERRY: Well, it's pretty shocking,how big the bullet holes are.

    • 07:20

      PATRICK MAGEE: Yeah, or are they gouged?

    • 07:21

      JO BERRY: Gouged?

    • 07:22

      PATRICK MAGEE: [INAUDIBLE], don't they?

    • 07:23

      JO BERRY: Don't they?It occurs to me, also, we're demonstrating an alternativeto blaming.We're not blaming each other for what's happened in our lives.We're looking at wanting to understand.And I think that can change the conversation,so that people start looking at their own conflict differently.

    • 07:44

      JO BERRY [continued]: And when we've been to post-conflicts, or evencurrent conflicts, quite often wehear that we create a safe place for peopleto have a different conversation,and their own conflict is reflected backin a different way.And maybe it can show them what's possible.Maybe they aren't able to meet their other,

    • 08:05

      JO BERRY [continued]: because of the situation.But the fact that we're doing this helps them, in some way.They maybe identify maybe even more with Pat,maybe more with me, maybe with us both.So there's a healing that can happen.So perhaps we're doing the work for other people, as well.It can help them move on.

    • 08:25

      PATRICK MAGEE: We're saying, this is possible.You can meet, and you can talk, and learn from each otherdespite that background.And you know, I think that could be appliedto all sorts of situations, at a personal level,and at a political level, and a community level.

    • 08:46

      PATRICK MAGEE [continued]: Wherever there is understanding, misunderstanding,I think you can apply that.You can live with difference.You can live with difference.[MUSIC PLAYING]

    • 08:59

      JO BERRY: Just to say, well.That person is a certain way, I was always curious,asking questions.And I think the best way to changepeople is to create a situation when they'regoing to want to change, rather than tellingpeople they have to change.And I think restorative justice does so well in making sureless people go back to prison, and actually

    • 09:24

      JO BERRY [continued]: take responsibility for their own--their own pain and journey.And as somebody who's been affected by violence,I know how much it's helped me.I will say, I've done some restorative justice in prisons.And seeing the importance, and the value of when two peoplewho've-- one has hurt the other--

    • 09:45

      JO BERRY [continued]: when they can then just understand, and listen,and share the stories, and see that the other's a human being,how much it can help both partners.[MUSIC PLAYING]I think now, every person has accessto learning how to be a positive change maker.And it's not that the feelings are wrong, no.

    • 10:06

      JO BERRY [continued]: It's OK to feel angry.It's OK to feel frustrated.What do we do with those feelings?And there's so much information there,about how we can work with our feelings nonviolently.And so every time I go into school or a university,or some events that Building Bridges organize,I talk about those skills, and how everyone

    • 10:27

      JO BERRY [continued]: can be a positive change maker.Neither Pat nor I is saying, you must go and do this.No, it's about people resonating with it.It's what I said about change.People change because they feel they want to make that change.And then I can then support them in that change,but it's completely up to them.

    • 10:49

      JO BERRY [continued]: And we're just giving an opportunityof how our relationship has been restored.[MUSIC PLAYING]

Restorative Justice

View Segments Segment :


After her father was killed in an IRA bombing, Jo Berry sought to meet her father's killer, Patrick Magee. The two had open conversations about the problems of the time and about how Berry's father was a real person. They co-founded a charity to support nonviolent conflict resolution.

SAGE Video In Practice
Restorative Justice

After her father was killed in an IRA bombing, Jo Berry sought to meet her father's killer, Patrick Magee. The two had open conversations about the problems of the time and about how Berry's father was a real person. They co-founded a charity to support nonviolent conflict resolution.

Back to Top