[WHOOSH SOUNDS][Copyright Notice.The programme is to be used only in education and training.No charge may be made specifically for its viewing.Unauthorized recording, copying, loan, hire, broadcastor other commercial exploitation is prohibited.

For further information please contact BBC Active directly.]

INTERVIEWER: How often do you have arguments about money?[MUSIC - "IT TAKES TWO"]

KEITH: [WHEW]

NICK: Too often for my liking.

KEITH: Yeah.

DOMINIC: I've broken the bank to buy a thing for her,but that's because, you know, she's special.

SPEAKER 4: It's not one of my skills, really.Don't think I'd ever be good with money.

INTERVIEWER: In households across the country,money causes more arguments than anything else.Whether you're rich or poor, young or old,a spender or a saver, money affects your relationshipwith your partner on a daily basis.So how do couples negotiate this perilous territory?

INTERVIEWER [continued]: And what is the recipe for financial harmony?[CHILD SCREAMING]

SPEAKER 5: No, no, no.What is it, love?[CRYING CHILD]No?You don't have to.Oh.Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.[MUSIC PLAYING]

INTERVIEWER: Vicki is 26 and lives at home with her parents.She and her fiance, Jonathan, are both doctors.They've been going out for three years,and are making careful plans for married life.

VICKI: We've talked a lot about the financial aspects of howwe're going to manage together, both because we'rethe kind of people who worry about stuffa long time in advance and would love,you know, just to spend a good Sunday afternoon dissecting it.But also because we went to a marriage prep course,and they put much more uncomfortable situations

VICKI [continued]: in front of us than just how are you going to deal financially.They went quite carefully through a seriesof domestic chores and roles in house, and said, who did this?Your mom or your dad?So who was the saver?Who was the spender?Who cleans the loo?Who does the cooking?Who does the family shopping?Who plans the holidays?Who runs the social aspect of your family?

VICKI [continued]: All that kind of stuff.And then got you to compare the templates of your backgroundsand therefore, what expectations youhave for how your roles will play out in your own marriage.I was kind of amazed at how many people really hadn't talkedabout this before they'd gotten really quiteclose to their wedding.

INTERVIEWER: And you and Jonathanhad talked about most of it?

VICKI: We'd talked about a lot of it.Yeah.

JONATHAN: Both our families have a great deal of shared values.I think they have similar class, and weare kind of singing from the same songsheet in terms of what we want to do and achieve.I think that was probably why Vicki and I get along so well.[MUSIC PLAYING]

INTERVIEWER: Natalie and David live in Nantwich in Cheshire.They've been together eight years,and have two small boys, James and Harry.

INTERVIEWER [continued]: How did the two of you meet?And when was that?

DAVID: That would have been 2000 and-- yeah.All right.Beginning of 2003.We met in Birbeck Bar, which is the Student's Union Barof Birbeck College in London.

INTERVIEWER: And tell me what happened next.[LAUGHING]

DAVID: Um.

NATALIE: Well, we accidentally fell pregnant.

DAVID: We?

NATALIE: With James.

DAVID: I didn't.

NATALIE: Well, you know, you were there.

DAVID: Yes.

INTERVIEWER: So how long after you first met was that?

NATALIE: About six weeks.We decided that we would stay together and give ita go, basically.And so we moved in together shortly after.And then, about five months into my pregnancy we got married.And then James came the following February.So, you know.

DAVID: All a bit quick, really.

NATALIE: It was.Yeah.By the time we'd been together a year,we were married and had had James.So it was very, very quick.

INTERVIEWER: What is Dave like with money?

NATALIE: Tight, worried, paranoid, anxious, terrible.Drives me nuts.

DAVID: What do you want me to do?

SON: That.One of his arms off.

DAVID: His arm?OK.

SON: Yep.

NATALIE: I want to take the boys out to Alton Towersor wherever, you know, or Chester Zoo,and spend money on that.But you kind of reined me in.And, you know, even if sometimes like I'llsay, let's go out today and we'll do this,and we'll go here, and like, oh, we'lltake the boys to LEGO City at the TraffordCenter or something.

NATALIE [continued]: And Dave will say, oh, hang on a minute.And then there will be such a kindof disagreement between us, that even if I get my way-- evenif we go-- the whole day is spot because I knowDave is kind of pulling his face over every single penny spent.

DAVID: If the money's there, fine.If it isn't, hang back a bit.

NATALIE: Any fun is banned in this house.[LAUGHING]

DAVID: I did not say that.

NATALIE: Fun is banned.

DAVID: OK.OK.

NATALIE: There will be no days out for you, children.Eat porridge, nothing else.[LAUGHING][SINGING]

INTERVIEWER: Dominic and his wife Irenelive in Aldershot in Surrey.Dominic is a pensions advisor, and Irene works for the airaccident investigations branch.They both earn roughly the same amount of money.[SINGING]

INTERVIEWER [continued]: Where did you both grow up?

IRENE: We both grew up in Ghana.

DOMINIC: But I mean, we've done enough,you know, growing up here in the UK as well.And that's sometimes a difficult thingis trying to balance Ghanaian cultureswith the British cultures as well.We grew up in the Catholic belief,but also in the traditional Ghanaian belief-- whata man should and shouldn't do, what a woman should do

DOMINIC [continued]: and shouldn't do, the things, the responsibilitiesthat a man should have, and things like that.

PRIEST: Father, may your name be held holy.Your kingdom come.Give us each day our daily bread, and forgive us our sins.

INTERVIEWER: Irene, is Dominic good with money?

IRENE: Yes.I think he is, because I think we work outto be sort of balanced out.Because I'm the type who just likes to be comfortable--very comfortable.And I don't mind spending my last penny to be comfortable.But he's the one who, you know, is quite disciplined.

IRENE [continued]: And he thinks before spending.I think we've just drawn each other to the middle,if you like, because he was quite--I don't use the word stingy, but he was extremely--

DOMINIC: Officially, Mr. Scrooge.

IRENE: [LAUGHS] Yeah.He was extremely disciplined with money, and to extentthat you work and don't enjoy what comes in.

INTERVIEWER: Were you ever in trouble with money?Did you ever overspend?

IRENE: Yeah.I used to overspend.

INTERVIEWER: Did you have debt when you met Dominic?

IRENE: Yes.I did, which is now paid off.Because I think I'm a lot more disciplined now.He's the one--

INTERVIEWER: In debt now?[LAUGHING]

DOMINIC: Yeah

INTERVIEWER: Is that true?

DOMINIC: Yep.

INTERVIEWER: Why are you--

DOMINIC: Not so much in debt, but yeah.I bought a car-- a BMW.I was trying to impress her, you know. [LAUGHING][MUSIC - "GOT MY MIND SET ON YOU"]

DOMINIC [continued]: My [INAUDIBLE] or my shop for list-- things that I like.I like to do things that put a smile on Irene's face.I've broken the bank to buy things for her,but, you know, that's because she's special.And I want her to feel special, and I want that smileon her face when I get it to her.

INTERVIEWER: Do you buy presents for Dominic in the same way?

IRENE: I do.Yeah.He's always complaining.You buy him present, and he's like, that's too much money.That's too much money.

INTERVIEWER: So when you buy Irene a lovely present,then it's smiles all around.But when she buys you a present, you worry about the money.

IRENE: He does.Absolutely.

DOMINIC: Yeah.

IRENE: Yeah.He does.

DOMINIC: Yeah.I know.I'm not not very good with accepting presents.No.

INTERVIEWER: Do you think you like beingtreated like a princess?

IRENE: Yes.It's nice.

DOMINIC: She loves it.

IRENE: Yeah.Not all the time.I treat him like a prince sometimes.Or it's both ways.It's not just one way all the time.

DOMINIC: Not all the time, but most of the time.[LAUGHS]

IRENE: Yeah.But it's nice to be treated like that.

DOMINIC: It's not just nice.I think you love it.You know, you love-- and you deserve it.But you love it.

IRENE: Yeah.It's nice.Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: Do you expect it?Do you expect him to treat you like that?

IRENE: Sometimes.Sometimes.Yeah.

DOMINIC: I had to be, you know, probablysounding more Gandhian than British,but I like to be the man.I like to feel in charge.And I think some of the times I'vegone out of my way to pay for things, because I'm the man.Or what do you think?

IRENE: Yeah.I think so too.

DOMINIC: Or you've made me pay for thingsbecause you think I'm the man, or you say I'm the man,I think.

IRENE: Yeah.I like to have him, you know, for example,paying for things, because he is the man.And yeah, I think partly it's because of our upbringingreally, the men are usually in charge, if you like.Even if it's my money we're using to pay,I don't mind giving it to him and saying,

IRENE [continued]: you give it to the person, so it lookslike you're paying for it.So, yeah.[MUSIC PLAYING]

INTERVIEWER: Mat that's Nicola have recently gotten married.They live in Chesterfield in Derbyshire.Nicola, how old are you?

NICOLA: 20.

INTERVIEWER: And Mat, how old are you?

MAT: 24.25th of the ninth, 1986.Let's see your tattoos, Nicola.

NICOLA: Mat's name.

INTERVIEWER: And when did you get Mat's name done?

NICOLA: About two months after we'dbeen together. [LAUGHS] We met on a two-week courseat Phoenix.

INTERVIEWER: It was a job seekers' course.

NICOLA: Yeah.

MAT: Yeah.And when we first met, I just loved looking at her.When we kissed for the first time, and that.

NICOLA: Took us two weeks to even kiss.

MAT: Or touch each other, hold hands.And then when we did kiss, my heart was pounding.And you could tell, because what did you sayto me when you come back in?

NICOLA: [SIGH] Felt real nice, a really nice feeling.

INTERVIEWER: And you're married?

NICOLA: Yep.

MAT: Yep.

INTERVIEWER: And how long ago did you get married?

NICOLA: Just three months ago.I were 15 when Ieft school.I did my GCSE, but I didn't get very good grades.

INTERVIEWER: And how about you, Mat?

MAT: I was kicked out at age 15.I didn't leave a note.And then I went to college to finish my school year off.I didn't get no art to that as well.And then that's it.I lived in hostels after that.

INTERVIEWER: So you left home after you left school.

MAT: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: So since you left school,Nicola, what jobs have you had?

NICOLA: Worked at McDonald's.Worked at Thornton's.Did telesales.

INTERVIEWER: And what happened to your job at McDonald's?

NICOLA: I got sacked.

INTERVIEWER: Why were you sacked?

NICOLA: For swearing.

INTERVIEWER: For swearing?Who did you swear at?

NICOLA: The boss. [LAUGHS]

INTERVIEWER: And then you worked in Thornton's, the chocolateshop.And how long did you work there?

NICOLA: Not for long.It was only temporary, for like Christmas.And I got in there Christmas.Only there for about three weeks,I think, something like that.

INTERVIEWER: And then you did telesales for a bit.Did you like that?

NICOLA: No.Not really.But I did it.Just wanted a job.

INTERVIEWER: And what happened with that job?

NICOLA: Got laid off-- very temporary.

INTERVIEWER: And so when did you last have a job?

NICOLA: About two years ago.

INTERVIEWER: So Mat, tell me about jobs you'vehad since you left school.

MAT: One, working at [INAUDIBLE],and that were about two year ago.So if I added up all the time me being signedand all, it would be about six years.

INTERVIEWER: Six years together.You're both on benefits now.What benefits are you on?

MAT: Job Seekers Allowance.

INTERVIEWER: OK.And you too, Nicola.

NICOLA: Yep.

INTERVIEWER: And how much do you get?

MAT: Oh, it varies, don't it?Between 185 to 200 a fortnight.

INTERVIEWER: So it's about 100 quid a week or a bit less.

MAT: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: So you pay your bills,and then how much you have left in your hand?

MAT: It varies from 40 to 60 don't it?

NICOLA: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: A fortnight?

MAT: Yep.

NICOLA: Yeah.

SPEAKER 6: Save yourself a fortune this week.You don't need to spend one.Have another pork chop on the top.

INTERVIEWER: What can you buy for that?

MAT: A lot of cheap stuff.

INTERVIEWER: What kind of things?

MAT: Cheap gammon, bacon, [INAUDIBLE], cheap meat.That's all, we just get by in cheap meat.Frozen stuff, like got a packet of frozen of veg for 36 p.Just buy stuff like that, what's really cheap.And so, some stuff don't taste nice, does it?

MAT [continued]: So I cook cheap.You wash it, don't you?

NICOLA: I wash the pots after he's done.

INTERVIEWER: And Nicola, is not a good cook?

NICOLA: Yeah.Not bad.

MAT: You like me [INAUDIBLE], don't you?

NICOLA: Yeah.

MAT: Which ones do you want?Because I'm cooking, I'm always thinking about the mealsand what we can get and what she don't.She goes, oh, let's get some crisp.Let's get some chocolate.Or let's go and get some sweets.[LAUGHS]

MAT [continued]: It does.It just brings you down.You're like in a vicious circle.So you only get like this to big amounts of money.And you like spend it on what you can.And then even if you waste it, you're like, damn.I've got to wait two weeks now.Cheers.

EDDIE: My grandfather started an East India Company.And they had a lot of furniture from India.And you can see that rather elaborate cupboard there.I had an aunt who was quite a famous painter.She painted my mother, which is up there.And funny enough, mother is wearingan Indian shawl, which my grandfather got from somewhere.

EDDIE [continued]: And as you can see, she's sitting on an Indian stool.And I can show you the Indian stool in the dining roomwhich the cat was sitting on.

INTERVIEWER: First of all, let meask you both how old you are.

EDDIE: Chantelle.

CHANTELLE: Well, I'm 71.

EDDIE: And I'm 77.No, I'm not.I'm 78.I'm sorry.

CHANTELLE: We've been together 48 years this year-- 48 yearsin October.

INTERVIEWER: How old were you when you married Eddie?

CHANTELLE: 23.

INTERVIEWER: And then how old were youwhen you had your first child?

CHANTELLE: 24.

INTERVIEWER: And then you had how many children altogether?

CHANTELLE: Four altogether.

INTERVIEWER: Would you have wanted a job, do you think?

CHANTELLE: Well, what you've never had, you don't miss.

INTERVIEWER: Chantelle and Eddie live in the home counties.Eddie has had a long and distinguished careerin finance.At age 78, he's still working.How much is your annual income now?

EDDIE: Oh, it's not very large.In total it's probably about, what?120,000, or something like that.

INTERVIEWER: How much is this house worth, roughly?

EDDIE: Well, it's difficult to say.

CHANTELLE: At the moment.

EDDIE: At the moment, my guess is somewhere between 1.5million and 2 million, without sounding pompous or arrogant.You know, one is very grateful for what one's got.

INTERVIEWER: Do the two of you have a joint account?

EDDIE: No.

INTERVIEWER: Why not?[LAUGHING]

EDDIE: Why not?I don't agree with a joint account.I honestly don't want to know what Chantelle spends.

CHANTELLE: Well, you do know sometimes because I tell you.

EDDIE: Well, yes.No.I think it's much better to be independent.

INTERVIEWER: You've supported Chantelle all of this time.

EDDIE: Yes.

INTERVIEWER: So when you say it's important for herto be independent, what does that mean?

EDDIE: Well, it means that I give her a certain amount,and have always given her a certain amount of moneyper month, and also I have passed on a certain amountof capital to her.

INTERVIEWER: How much money goes into Chantelle's accountevery month?

CHANTELLE: It's about 900 pounds.

EDDIE: About 900 pounds.

CHANTELLE: Yeah.900 pounds.

INTERVIEWER: And what's that nominally for, that money?

CHANTELLE: Well, food.You know, I think it's important to eatnice things-- to eat well.I cook.Most of my clothes [INAUDIBLE].

INTERVIEWER: If there were expensesin a particular month that meant that you were spending morethan your 900-- I don't know, if all the grandchildren hadbirthdays, and you went out and bought all their birthdaypresents and there was no money left.What happens then?

CHANTELLE: Well, if I spend moneywhich is outside the routine, or if you go through my bankstatement, it's always [INAUDIBLE],then if it's a present-- if it's Christmas--I present him with the bill of the extra money I spent.

INTERVIEWER: So then, Eddie, do you then reimburse?

EDDIE: Yes.

CHANTELLE: Yes.

INTERVIEWER: OK.But is there anything that either of youspend money on that you wouldn't tell the other person?

CHANTELLE: Well, I don't think Eddiecares what I spend on the hairdresser or that sortof thing.No.But there's nothing I would keep secret.

INTERVIEWER: And what about you, Eddie?No.I never discuss what I spend.

CHANTELLE: I don't have to know everything that Eddie spends.It's none of my business.

INTERVIEWER: It is a traditional setup.It's a lack of autonomy, in a way.

CHANTELLE: I'm perfectly comfortable in relyingon his expertise and intelligence,and I know that he will do the best for the two of us.Our daily life is fairly harmonious.

EDDIE: I think people tend to argue if they'reon top of each other.But, you know, we live fairly separate lives.

CHANTELLE: We have space.

EDDIE: We've got space and got our own interests.And I've still got quite a lot of work.[MUSIC - "MONEY, MONEY, MONEY, MONEY"]

INTERVIEWER: Nick and Keith live in Sheffieldand have been together for three years.Keith, tell me what Nick is like with money.

KEITH: Um.Nick with money.Frivolous, I would think.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.He has money.He spends money.He buys things-- gadgety things-- things, to me,that probably he never uses.Buys loads of clothes.

INTERVIEWER: How many t-shirts does he have?

KEITH: Oh, God loves.[WHEW] Well over-- it's gotten over 100.Must be over 100.

INTERVIEWER: Is that true?Is that true, more than 100 t-shirts?

KEITH: Yeah.It might be a bit more than 100, but it got--

NICK: No.It's-- no, I don't think so.

KEITH: It can't be far off.

INTERVIEWER: Nick, can you characterize for mewhat Keith is like with money?

NICK: Well, he's very paranoid about money.He sort of gets in sort of fits and starts,but he sometimes gets very, very antsy not having enough money.We have a joint account.We've got a joint current account,

NICK [continued]: and we've a joint credit card that Keith manages.He collects all the receipts and keeps them for a month.And then when the credit card bill arrives,then he just sits there and ticks one off.[LAUGHING]What?You do.And then he goes mental for like, what's this?

NICK [continued]: Three pounds unaccounted for.And then he asks me.He says, have you been to such and such placeand spent three quid?I'm like, no.You have.And then it goes all from there.It goes into a bit of a frenzy.I do all the shopping for food.

KEITH: Yeah.

NICK: I don't think you ever go into a supermarket, do you?

KEITH: No.

INTERVIEWER: And are you happy with the amountthat Nick spends on food?

KEITH: Um.Kind of yes and no.

INTERVIEWER: If you were buying eggs, what kind of eggswould you buy, Nick?

NICK: I would buy free range, and he would buy the battery--

KEITH: Eggs.To me, it's just like eggs.But I am a fish and chip and a pie, chips and peas man.

INTERVIEWER: But does it annoy you, Keith,that Nick comes back with free range eggswhen you know battery eggs are cheaper?

KEITH: Um.

INTERVIEWER: You think he's wasting money?Come on.Be honest, Keith.Come on.

KEITH: I'll be part on this.I do look at receipts and think, really?You know, well you could have gotten that cheaper.

NICK: I spend quite a lot of moneyfrom my own account on food, because then Ican throw the receipt away.Then he doesn't actually see it.

INTERVIEWER: OK.So you're secretly shopping for foodthat you know Keith would disallow.Is that right?

NICK: Not necessarily.

KEITH: It looks like that.

NICK: Oh, no.[LAUGHING]

INTERVIEWER: But then does Keith not say, hang on a minute.There's a jar of oyster sauce herethat I haven't seen a receipt for.

NICK: Oh, yeah.He'll sometimes just open the freezer door to get something.And he'll be like, what's all this?What's all this?

KEITH: We've fought more about more than anything else.

INTERVIEWER: Can you see yourself resolvingyour differences anymore, or do youthink you've come as far as you can come,and you'll just carry on arguing?

KEITH: I don't think it'll ever be resolved entirely.

NICK: The test of the resolve wouldbe if I start monitoring the current account on the creditcard.

INTERVIEWER: Could that ever happen, Keith?

NICK: Now that would be.

KEITH: That would not happen.I could not cope with that.That would literally-- I would-- I couldn't cope with it.And that is true.I could not cope with something like.

INTERVIEWER: Because you would what?Feel--

KEITH: I'd be panicking.I'd have sleepless nights.I'd be checking.I'd be pestering him, show me this statement, show me this,show me that.No.I could not tolerate that.I couldn't cope with it.

NICK: See?I think I'm quite good at managing things like that.

KEITH: It's a way of thinking.And it's like we said earlier, if Iwent to get a tenner out or 20 quid out or about,I have to have a mini-statement.Some people might call it an OCD.I don't know.But it's--

INTERVIEWER: How often are you getting a mini-statement?Every day?Is it really every day, Keith?

NICK: Not on a Sunday.[LAUGHING]So six days a week.

KEITH: Most days.The money's always there, so why would you do it?

INTERVIEWER: And what's the answer to that?

KEITH: I don't know.

INTERVIEWER: You just feel better when you've done it.

KEITH: Yeah.Yeah.It's always right.

INTERVIEWER: And you always know before you do itwhat it's going to say?

KEITH: Yeah.My dad was a steel worker.My mum was a school dinner lady.And money was tight.

INTERVIEWER: So you've got the same attitude your parents had.

KEITH: Yeah.Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: Presumably now you'remuch better off than your parents were.Are you?

KEITH: Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.You know, but--

INTERVIEWER: But you don't feel it really.

KEITH: I think that's true.I think that's very, very true.

INTERVIEWER: Do you wish you weren't like this, Keith?

KEITH: [WHEW]That's a good question.Yeah.Yeah.It would be nice to be a bit more like Nick.So I'm getting better.I'm getting there.[MUSIC PLAYING]

SPEAKER 7: Like to pop your card in for me?

INTERVIEWER: Dominic, Irene came back with some bagsthis morning.Has she shown you what she bought?

DOMINIC: She tried to, but I didn't want to know.The prices and things is what really gets to be sometimes.

INTERVIEWER: So do you know how much she spent this morning?

DOMINIC: No.

SPEAKER 7: Would you like the receipt in the bag?

IRENE: Please.

INTERVIEWER: Are you going to tell him?

IRENE: No.[LAUGHING]

DOMINIC: She doesn't realize that I'vegot a way of finding out, you know, every now and again.

IRENE: How?

DOMINIC: Sometimes I have a look at either your bank statementor my bank statement.

IRENE: Really?

DOMINIC: Or maybe-- maybe you left the receipt.Normally, you leave the receipt in the bag.

IRENE: Well, you're not allowed to look at my bank statement.

DOMINIC: Yeah, I am.I look at your bank statement all the time anyway.[LAUGHING]

INTERVIEWER: Did you not know that, Irene, that he'schecking your bank statements?

IRENE: Not behind my back.[LAUGHING]

INTERVIEWER: And, Irene, do you know,day to day, how much money Dominic's got in his account?

IRENE: I don't.No.He's got quite a few accounts.And I know he said his-- should I say?

DOMINIC: Hm?

IRENE: [SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

DOMINIC: [SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

IRENE: [SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

DOMINIC: Barclay's?

IRENE: Oh, Barclay's.Sorry about that.

DOMINIC: Yeah, credit card.She's questioning me about my account now.It's all your fault. One thing that she doesn't knowis that sometimes I try to, when I don't think-- when she says,oh, we should get this.We should get this, and I don't think we should,sometimes I tell her, oh, no.I'm a bit broke this month.So let's wait.But I should have said this, but that's

DOMINIC [continued]: one of the reasons why, you know,she said, oh, by your overdrafts and things like,because sometimes I make her think that, you know,we have to be careful.And I think it's--

INTERVIEWER: OK.So you pretended.So you pretend.

IRENE: He does.That's how he was.Yeah. [LAUGHING]

DOMINIC: And I think she will be happierwhether buying a show or buying something for the house,or financial security, I think she will be happier in herself.

INTERVIEWER: Oh.So you're lying for her own good.Is that right?

DOMINIC: Yes.

IRENE: He does that.Yeah.

DOMINIC: But it's not like a big lie, you know.It's a lie for our own good.

INTERVIEWER: OK.For the mutual good.[MUSIC PLAYING]

INTERVIEWER [continued]: So you built the toilet, did you, Arys?

ARYS: I did It's the first thing I've ever built, really.Yeah.It's great.

INTERVIEWER: Did you build it on your own?

ARYS: I did.It's palatial, isn't it?Well, you haven't been inside, have you?You haven't risked it yet.

INTERVIEWER: No.I'm really hoping I'm not going to need it.

ARYS: I love poo, and I love composts.And Marianne loves growing things.So I make the beds and the food for them.And she grows stuff.[MUSIC PLAYING]

INTERVIEWER: Arys, where are you from?

PARIS: The womb.I miss it terribly, terribly.I try to get back any time I can.

MARIANNE: Arys, don't waste time.It's going to take a long time already.Get to the point.

ARYS: I came out of the womb in California.And that's where I was born and raised.

INTERVIEWER: Arys and his wife Mariannelive in a caravan in an ecocommunity in Waleswith their three children.They've purchased a plot of land for 35,000 pounds,and plan to spend another 35,000 building somewhere to live.Where is the 70,000 coming from?

MARIANNE: My life savings.

INTERVIEWER: Well, how much were your life savings, Marianne?100,000?

ARYS: She doesn't know.

MARIANNE: Well, it changes.Of course it changes.You keep spending it, you know.Hey, look at this spider.Look at this one.Look.

INTERVIEWER: Where did 100,000 pounds come from?

MARIANNE: I've always been a saver.I've always saved my money, had my piggy bank.And I was always given money as a child.In my family there's very much this culture of the moneyhas to come down.You know, that it's when you're young that you need the most.My grandmother always says, when you're young,you need the money.And once you're older, you're established, and you know,things are kind of up and running.

MARIANNE [continued]: So I've definitely been supported financiallyby my family.

ARYS: I did not have a family that gave me money.My father used to borrow money off of me.

MARIANNE: And you hadn't been taught how to save.

ARYS: I had not been taught how to save.And I'm very much about experience.As soon as I get enough money to go somewhere and experiencesomething, I will go somewhere and experience something.

MARIANNE: Yeah.But let's not pretend I didn't have experiences too.It's not like I just sat at home,you know, fatly on my fat, cushioned money.

ARYS: No.No.

MARIANNE: No.I mean.You know.

ARYS: I'm not saying you did.This is about me.

MARIANNE: Good.

ARYS: We're talking about me now.But no one ever gave me money.

MARIANNE: OK.And then we'll have [INAUDIBLE] at supper.OK?

CHILD: That's for me.

MARIANNE: Is that [INAUDIBLE]?

INTERVIEWER: Do you know how much you're spendingon food a week, roughly?

MARIANNE: I'd probably say about 100 pounds a week.Yeah.

ARYS: That sounds about right, but I don't actually know.

MARIANNE: Yeah.Food's pricey.

ARYS: Food is cheaper than it's everbeen in the history of the marketplace.

MARIANNE: Food is a significant expense for us.

ARYS: It is.People have never paid so little for food.

MARIANNE: Food is a significant expense for us.

ARYS: It is our second greatest expense.It's true.It is.

INTERVIEWER: Would you say the two of youhave different attitudes to money?

ARYS: I know what it is.

MARIANNE: Yes.I would say we have different attitudes towards money.

INTERVIEWER: In what way?

MARIANNE: I like to have it.I like to keep track of it.

INTERVIEWER: And Marianne, what is Arys like with money?

MARIANNE: When he's got it, he spends it.

ARYS: When I've got it, I spend it.But when you've got it, you spend it as well.

MARIANNE: No, darling.I've got all of those savings.I didn't spend them.

ARYS: I guess the thing is, I never have much.That's the thing.

MARIANNE: No.Because you spend it.

ARYS: What have I bought, for example?

MARIANNE: I don't know.I don't know.That tambourine.

ARYS: The tambourine.

MARIANNE: That was ridiculous.

ARYS: That was when I was really into samba drumming.It's a pandero, actually. [LAUGHING]But I'm going to learn how to play it one day.[LAUGHING]

INTERVIEWER: Which of you has a healthier attitude to money,do you think?

MARIANNE: I've got more.[LAUGHING]

ARYS: It's simply stated.So I must be right.

MARIANNE: No.But if we look at it, and go, OK.Well, you know, we've both been alive for 38 years.We've had different amounts, different experiences.We've been given different amounts.

ARYS: I have more?How is your money separate from mine at all?

MARIANNE: Yeah.We've both worked.We've both lived our lives.When we've reached this point, I have got more.

INTERVIEWER: Why is it your moneyand not the family's money or Arys' money,or everybody's money?

ARYS: Good question.

MARIANNE: I saved it.It's my work saving that money.

ARYS: And well done.Well done.And thank you.Really, thank you.Well done[MUSIC - "CAN'T HELP FALLING IN LOVE"]

PRIEST: All that I am, I give to you.

JONATHAN: All that I am, I give to you.

PRIEST: And all that I have, I share with you.

JONATHAN: And all that I have, I share with you.

PRIEST: For richer, for poorer--

VICKI: For richer, for poorer--

PRIEST: In sickness and in health--

VICKI: In sickness and in health--

PRIEST: To love and to cherish--

INTERVIEWER: To love and to cherish--

PRIEST: Till death us do part.

VICKI: Till death us do part.[MUSIC PLAYING]

PRIEST: You may kiss the bride.[CLAPPING]

INTERVIEWER: Show me some of your wedding presents.

JONATHAN: OK.We have our lovely coffee maker for our weekend coffee,which we relish.We had it this morning.Very nice.

INTERVIEWER: Vicki, show me your favor present.

VICKI: My favorite present is from my uncle,which is this mama for the feeding of the 5,000.And also if things get bad between us,this is my weapon of choice for hitting Jonathan over the head.

INTERVIEWER: The toaster?

VICKI: Oh, yes.That was from one of the bridesmaids, whoriffed on the theme and said that we were the bestcouple since sliced bread.

JONATHAN: Very [INAUDIBLE] kind of clock.

VICKI: Which came the message, wehope you have a very happy moo-riage.We are utterly delighted for you.[LAUGHING]Just been some terrible punning.

JONATHAN: Yeah.They're all some very droll friends.[WEDDING CHIMES]

INTERVIEWER: How did you pay for you honeymoon in Skegness?

MAT: It was a wedding present.

INTERVIEWER: Was it?

NICOLA: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: Who gave you that?

NICOLA: My mom's best friend.

MAT: She said, oh, I'll give you a carivan for a week.Well, all right, then.We'll take it.I'll love where it is, as long as it's awayfrom Chesterfield for a week.I'm not [INAUDIBLE].And when we were down in Skegness, we were happy,weren't we?Most happiest week of our lives.Because we weren't here.But then the last day you're thinking,oh, I won't go back to it.

MAT [continued]: [GUNFIRE]

INTERVIEWER: What do you do most days?Are you often stuck at home?

NICOLA: Yeah.

MAT: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: And what do you do?Watch the tele?

MAT: Yeah.

NICOLA: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: You watch the tele a lot?

MAT: That's boring.

INTERVIEWER: You get bored.

NICOLA: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: And then you do X-box, Mat, do you?

MAT: I did, but not now.It eats electric.

INTERVIEWER: Does it?So it was costing you too much in electricity.

MAT: Yeah.So I only go on it now and then, don't I?Only at night time.

NICOLA: When I'm asleep.

MAT: I'm already thinking now my life sucks.And it does, because it's boring.Sometimes I stay in bed until 11:00 and 12:00,because what's point in getting up.And it's just ridiculous.And I have said to you, I know I'm getting sick of it.And all I say is, I'm sick of this life.

MAT [continued]: So she thinks I'm sick of her.But it's not.It's just the situation of what we're in.I just hope that we get a job, because I don't thinkwe can keep-- if we've got another five years of this,I don't think we'll be together.

MAT [continued]: I'm hoping as soon as she gets pregnant,I'm hoping to get a job then.

INTERVIEWER: What would life be like if you had a baby?

MAT: It'd be different.Instead of sitting about, lazing about, or not doing nothing,we'd be all, we have a kid.We'd be doing something.Even if it's changing or napping,it's just breaking the horrible cyclewhat we're in, just something new, something different.

INTERVIEWER: And Nicola, how do you feel about the future?You want to be a mum?But if the two of you don't get jobs,do you think about that sometimesand what that will be like?

NICOLA: Sometimes.

INTERVIEWER: And are you worried about that?

NICOLA: Yep.

INTERVIEWER: Tell me what you think about that whenyou think about the future.

NICOLA: I think we'll split up if I don't get a job.

MAT: Because you see each other every single day.You eat, you live, you live, you breathe.Everything you do, you do together.Because I see her all day, I can'twait to get away from her.I mean, I know it's horrible, but that's the way it is.And I can't get away from her, because we've got no money.

MAT [continued]: So it's like I've got to stick with it or I leave.

INTERVIEWER: What do you think, Nicola?

NICOLA: The same.

INTERVIEWER: But you're still in lovewith each other at a moment.

MAT: Yeah.At the moment.[LAUGHING][MUSIC PLAYING]

INTERVIEWER: What qualifications or education do you have?

NATALIE: GCSEs.And that's it.Yep.

INTERVIEWER: And what about you, Dave?

DAVID: OK.I stayed around education for quite awhile.So I've got GCSEs, A-levels.I've got a Bachelor's in Science, biochemistry.I've got a Master's degree in the structural biology.And I've got a PH.D. Also in structural biology.

INTERVIEWER: Natalie works in a lawyer's office.And Dave is a research scientist at Manchester University doingbiomedical research into arthritis.Dave is the primary breadwinner, and earns 34,000 pounds a year.

NATALIE: Dave's kind of really into his career,and that's his pride and joy in a kind of strange way.I mean, it's not just a job to him.He is immersed in science.His birthday's actually in a couple of weeks,but his mom has bought him a ticket to a science conferencein Manchester for two days.

NATALIE [continued]: And he goes on marches and he--

DAVID: Well, I would have done.

NATALIE: Well, you would have gone on this march recently.But you have done that before-- gone on marches and thingslike that.Yeah.

DAVID: That was against the Iraq War.

NATALIE: Was that start with the war.

DAVID: Yeah.That's not really science-y.

NATALIE: Yeah.But it's a nerd thing to do.

DAVID: Not really.It's an activist thing.

NATALIE: Dave's got a career, and he'sworked really hard for it.But, you know, his career is a means to an end.It's that's it.That's what he's there for-- the love of the job, the career.The money is incidental to that, really.

DAVID: It's quite helpful though.

NATALIE: Well, yeah.It is quite helpful.But, I mean, you know, it is what it is.Isn't it?You wouldn't change career for the money.You wouldn't want to not work in science.

DAVID: No.You're right.

INTERVIEWER: Natalie loves experience.Is there a shortage of money in this situation?

DAVID: Yes.

INTERVIEWER: Is there a shortage of money from your perspective?

DAVID: Yes.Absolutely.Yes.

INTERVIEWER: And Natalie, do you think Dave should retrain?

NATALIE: Yeah.I do.Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: What do you think he should retrain as?

NATALIE: I don't know.An accountant or something, or a lawyer.With his qualifications, it wouldn't take very much time.I've worked with lawyers for 16 years,and I know how much they can earn.And let's say it's, you know, triple the amountthat Dave earns now.I look at the boys and think, why should they sufferso you can enjoy your job?

DAVID: They don't suffer.

NATALIE: I want them to go to the private schooland give them the best start that I can, but how canI do that on your salary?

DAVID: I don't know.There's no doubt.I'm not denying that, you know, it's a problem.

NATALIE: And I think that the family has to come first.And personal occupation preferenceshave to be put aside.If I had to go and be a toilet cleaner for the money,I would go and be a toilet clean for the money,you know, and hate every minute of it.But that's what you do.That's what my mom and dad did.And that's what the vast majority of the public

NATALIE [continued]: do is they go and do a job they don't like for the money.I think you're very lucky to havean occupation that you love.

DAVID: OK.Yeah.Thanks.You just like completely shafted me there.

NATALIE: No, I haven't.Why?

DAVID: Well, that was a-- it's not an argument.Um, yes.Fair enough.

INTERVIEWER: What would you disagree within that, David?

DAVID: What do I disagree within that?Well, it paints me as a bit of a villain.

NATALIE: Oh, don't be soft.

DAVID: But I'm not going to deny that I enjoy the job that I do.Absolutely, I do.To be honest, I have spent an awful lot of my life trainingto do what I do.And I like to think I'm pretty good at it.

INTERVIEWER: Is this as an argument that the two of youhave regularly?

DAVID: Yeah.It crops up.

NATALIE: I'll say.

DAVID: From time to time.

NATALIE: Yeah.No.It is.And it's one of those things about goingback to getting married and being togetherand being a family from such an early stages isthat we didn't realize that about each other for awhile.Did we?

DAVID: No.

NATALIE: That was one of the things we discoveredabout our relationship and we discovered about each otheronce we were already kind of married and had a child.

INTERVIEWER: What was it you didn't know?That you both had such different attitudes to moneyand how to spend it?

NATALIE: Yeah.Different attitudes to money, different attitudesto life, really, in a way.It's just one of those things that we eitherhave to bare it or split up, frankly.You know, it's that or it's the other.I can't see any way forward.Dave's not going to leave his job.He's not going to leave science.You know, I'm not going to stop moaning about that.

NATALIE [continued]: So you either kind of pop or shut up,but that's a decision you make.And essentially, we do what's best for the boys.And the best for the boys is that they have their dadaround, and they have their family.And we just keep on digging away and doing the best we can.It's not ideal, but what can you do?[MUSIC PLAYING]

ANDREW: Got married in 2001.

KIRSTIE: [LAUGHS] 1990, dear.

ANDREW: 1990.Oh.

KIRSTIE: Otherwise we would only be married for nine years.[LAUGHING]OK.How's your math?

ANDREW: Numbers are so difficult.

INTERVIEWER: When you were first together, was there plenty?Did you have plenty of money as a couple?

KIRSTIE: Ish.

ANDREW: Yes.20 years ago.23 years ago I think we were certainlyable to do all the things that one would like to spend moneyon-- go out to dinner, go away for weekends,visit friends a lot, cinema.We used to keep the place.The standard decoration was very good.Kirstie used to spend a lot of moneyon the curtains, furniture, flooring, decorating.

ANDREW [continued]: It's what you enjoy-- sort of the furnishing.

KIRSTIE: I liked it.Yeah.But, you know, you liked sort of furnishing too.You know, we chose this wallpaper together.You put it up.

ANDREW: I've always liked your taste.

KIRSTIE: Oh.That's good.

INTERVIEWER: Kirstie and Andrew have one teenage, Toby,and live in Petersfield in Hampshire.Kirstie is a nurse and a lecturer in clinical skills.And Andrew is a photographer.

KIRSTIE: He, for a long time, hada very successful photographic businessand earned a lot of money.And then things changed.It's digital photography.You can buy a picture on the internet for 32 P from China.Why would you spend 700 pounds paying a studio photographerto do the same thing?So then that changed, but he didn't reallyadapt to that that huge massive fall in income.

ANDREW: We did a remortgage package.And the money arrived.We paid off and did quite a lot of thingswe were supposed to do with it.We paid off a couple of credit cards.Quite a lot of things did get done.But one of the major things which I should have donewas pay off the balance of the studio mortgage.

INTERVIEWER: Instead of paying offthe 25,000 pounds that was owed on his studio,Andrew kept the money.Without telling Kirstie, he used it to pay the monthly mortgagepayments on the family home.For over two years, he kept Kirstie in the darkabout what he'd done, and let her believethe debt had been paid off.

ANDREW: It was just one of those thingsthat I thought well, I'd rather keep this quiet.Hopefully, if I'd just increase a little bit more work,then I will be able to pay it off.But of course once you start thinking that,then it never happens.It's a very hard thing to face, particularlywhen you're used to having sufficient funds all the time.

ANDREW [continued]: But it comes to the point where you're seriously falling short.It's something that gets very difficult to face up to.

KIRSTIE: And difficult to tell your wife.

ANDREW: Very difficult to tell your wife.

KIRSTIE: Mm.

INTERVIEWER: And what was Kirstie's reactionwhen she found out?

ANDREW: She was very upset-- furious,really-- that I'd kept it so quietand been so untruthful about it.

INTERVIEWER: When you were in your darkest moment, Kirstie,when you found out that Andrew hadbeen lying to you for two years or more,did you ever think of leaving?

KIRSTIE: Yeah.Definitely.You know, I mean because I was so angry.I was so angry and so irritated and so mortified.And I felt so stupid and humiliated.And I thought I'll never believe him again.

INTERVIEWER: And do you believe him now?

KIRSTIE: Sometimes.Not always.When I'm looking over his shoulder at his accountand the balance is up on the screen, I believe him.If he says he hasn't got any money, I know he's lying.So I just look over his shoulder at the online balance.And then I know what the truth of his story is.

ANDREW: I always want to be in a position where I can provideand I can provide well.It's very embarrassing not to be and to find that you are short.And it's one thing I just really do not want to admit.So therefore, I've been flexible with the truth about it.[VIOLIN PLAYING]

ANDREW [continued]: There are a lot of things I don't find embarrassing at all.I've never found any kind of musical performancedifficult, or speaking in front of people,or a lot of things that people would find very difficulty.But dealing with money, I think, is extremely difficult.

INTERVIEWER: Are you a bit of a child around money, Andrew?

ANDREW: I think I must've been, yes.I'm just not good with it.

KIRSTIE: Why are you like that?

ANDREW: I think I'm improving.

KIRSTIE: No.That wasn't the question.Why are you like that?

ANDREW: I don't know why I'm like that.I think it's probably because it's not one of my skills,really.I don't think I'd ever be good with money.[MUSIC PLAYING]

KIRSTIE: She won't run off.She knows exactly where she's goingto get her next meal from, and that's from me.[MUSIC PLAYING]

VICKI: Hello.[LAUGHING]

JONATHAN: Why the silly voice?

VICKI: Slightly silly mood. [LAUGHS]

JONATHAN: That's not good.

INTERVIEWER: How long have you two been married now?

JONATHAN: 22 days.

VICKI: Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: Have you had a discussion about your financessince you were married?

VICKI: Yeah.I mean we've talked about what luxurieswe can and can't afford.

JONATHAN: When you go to work, it'ssometimes nice to have a Diet Coke or whatever at work.And whether or not you should buy them at the supermarket,because obviously they're cheaper if you buy in bulkthan just buying from a vending machine.We thought we'd hold off buying in the supermarketto see how much we actually ended up drinking at work,and whether or not we saved money in the long run

JONATHAN [continued]: if we bought, you know, four to eight a week or whatever,more than not what we'd end up doing is drinking more.It was just little things like thatwhere it doesn't feel like a great deal of money.But if you work it out, and you have one bottle a day--a pound day-- during the working week,then you're spending 250 quid on Coke,which is an insignificant.

INTERVIEWER: You think everythingthrough to an incredible extent.Is that something you have in common?

JONATHAN: Yeah.I think we are like quite strategic planners.

VICKI: Yeah.I was just thinking we could do something with the prawns thatare left over.

JONATHAN: Yeah.If we haven't got enough [INAUDIBLE],what could do a tiny kind of starter or something.

VICKI: Yeah.Sure.Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: Have you had an argument yet?

JONATHAN: I really don't think we did.

VICKI: Don't know.

JONATHAN: There was a moment of like kind of sterntalking to in the mauldings on High Moonwhen we ran very low on loo roll.Because Vicki had a cold, and I had a slightly bludgey tummy.

VICKI: Too much information.Just over-sharing.

JONATHAN: And then we [INAUDIBLE].And I was just like, you know, but anyway.

INTERVIEWER: It was you that got cross Jonathan, was it?

JONATHAN: I felt my need for loo roll was greater.

INTERVIEWER: And that's been the only cause of disagreement?

VICKI: Yeah.

JONATHAN: Hm.

INTERVIEWER: Andrew, are you happily married?

ANDREW: I think we have a bit of a laugh, yes.

INTERVIEWER: Are you happy married, Kirstie?

KIRSTIE: Yes.When he's not there, I miss him for somebody to go to the pubwith, or say, what should we buy for lunch,or can you go fill my car up with petrol,or you know, let's watch the film.What do you want to watch on the tele?So it's having companion-- somebodyto talk to-- that is quite easy to do,because you've done it for a number of years, I suppose.

INTERVIEWER: Is that right?

ANDREW: Yes.I hate for there's a certainty of entertainment.

KIRSTIE: What?You're funny.

ANDREW: Yeah.I hope so.[LAUGHING]

KIRSTIE: Yes.Yes.Yes, but you're funny as well sometimes.Sometimes you're irritating.But that's normal.But you find me really, really irritating as well.[MUSIC PLAYING]

INTERVIEWER: Do you just tolerate the argumentsabout money now?Do you just accept that they're just part of your relationship?

KEITH: Yeah.I think you accept that he's probably notgoing to-- Nick won't shift on his thing.And I-- probably too late on that.It's really going to be difficultfor me to move all my attitudes around it.

MARIANNE: Well, what we've found isthat it's probably best we don't talk about it,because we don't really tend to see it in quite the same

NATALIE: Light.I think the bottom line is that all right, you know,you have your arguments.And on the practical level, you stumble over the problems.But we want to stay together, and we want to make it work,and we want to grow old together.And I think that's the bottom line.[MUSIC - "CAN'T HELP FALLING IN LOVE WITH YOU"]

NATALIE [continued]: [Camera, Johann Perry][Sound Recordist, Marc Hatch][Assistant Producers, Tara Nolan, Tara O'Kelly,Samantha Williams][Production Coordinator, Tallulah Capaldi][Production Manager, Annabel Yonge][Colourist, Ross Baker][Online Editor, Alan Jones][Dubbing Mixer, Samuel Castleton][Film Editor, Joanna Crickmay][Executive Producer, Nick Mirsky]

NATALIE [continued]: [Series produced and directed by Vanessa Engle, BBC Productions]